Posted on 03/30/2017 9:03:39 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
>”First blood”? Nope. Third blood is more like it. As in this is the third time this month Trump has threatened conservatives in the HFC. At first I was willing to concede Donald was playing mind games, 3 D chess, doing a head fake, or call it what you will.
>But now? Well, if Trump wants to slide on into bed with the RINO’s then he’s on his own. I can not support him.
Trump’s going to make deals with whoever is willing to make deals to get things done. If parts of the GOP refuses to cut deals then they’re going to get destroyed by Trump.
Secondly Trump has been very good to us. He’s given us a very conservative supreme court justice, real border enforcement, a Muslim ban to improve screening, an end a lot of job killing environmental and anti oil regulations, reduced some of the pain from Obamacare, and unleashed our Military against our enemies. Is it really so much of him to ask us to support him in incremental steps on fixing Obamacare where we don’t get everything we want in a single go?
Attacking instead of working with Trump will just drive him into the arms of the Rinos or Dems. Chose wisely.
I would rather have a Congressman who votes MY will. That’s what he/she is elected for...to vote the peoples’ will, not their own conscience or judgement. I know that they have alot of leeway but that is actually their job, to vote for or against what the people want.
Congress has done nothing but allow companies to invade the privacy of internet users. All Republicans in Congress are to blame if they can't get something to Trump to get him to sign.
>>If you can’t do that, then you lose the influence and sit as a do nothing caucus which stands on principle alone and will never govern.<<
What utter stupidity! Maybe the most idiotic message I’ve seen posted on FR ever.
You are saying that unless we agree to compromise our convictions now, we won’t be in a position to compromise our convictions in the future.
Thanks for your help Mr. Rhino Establishment Uniparty dude, but we really don’t need your advice.
Go Take a Dump with Trump! And solidify socialized medicine for all eternity in this country without our help.
Why are you lecturing us specifically.
“If parts of the GOP refuses to cut deals then they’re going to get destroyed by Trump.”
I guess some things never change. Conservatives are used to getting destroyed by a liberal president. Trump is no different.
“Attacking instead of working with Trump will just drive him into the arms of the Rinos or Dems. Chose wisely.”
Chose wisely? Too late for that. Trump has made his choice already. And the fact he chose to side with the RINO’s cannot be blamed on a small minority of conservatives in the House.
And watch and see if this bill ever does come to a vote? It’ll be the RINO’s who will stab Trump in the back. RINO’s who will not vote for it as they - like the dems - have planned to keep ObamaCare all along.
And if I’m wrong and RINO’s do pass RINOCare? Is it remotely possible that it will be any better than ObamaCare?
Of course not.
Hmmmm. So Jordan’s (roughly .23%) vote causes you to condemn him? He exerted much more power stopping the “new” chapter in socialism than King Trump. It is ripe that his minuscule power exceeds that of DJT.
President Trump is not the Negotiator in Chief that he’d like to be. He’s never negotiated in an arena where he has to bring 218 people along. Methinks he can’t using the one on one negotiation rules. He clearly didn’t understand that you can’t compromise core principles, and you can’t negotiate with a large group unless one person has full authority for the group. There are other mistakes he made in his loss of his Congressional virginity. He fumbled the ball, and now seeks to assign blame on others instead of accepting it himself.
I suppose it is because President Trump has never been on a team (since high school) and doesn’t remember that a loss for the team is a loss for all; and a win for the team is a win for all. He seems, to this humble man, to be a glory hound, ball hog, that wants all the credit, and none of the blame. So sad. I hope he realizes it isn’t about him - it’s about the 309,000,000+ people he represents and is on his team. We aren’t called Trumpians. We are called Americans. I welcome him on our team, but only if he is a team player.
Doing an autopsy on the aborted (there was never a vote) AHCA is instructive on how NOT to negotiate. I wish home the best, but not at caving in to the Socialist agenda. In that, I hope he fails.
Gwjack
I can promise that I will never support someone who comes out and declares it is his intention to “defeat me in 2018”.
The person that says that, that he intends to defeat me, is by definition of the word, my enemy. I don’t support my enemy. I fight back against him.
That "no compromise" bull might work when you are in the minority, but with the status quo looming, doing nothing isn't an option. It is time to put this engine in reverse, and if that requires not getting 100% of your principled stance, then some compromise is required. That is just plain common sense in any kind of legislative process.
You and I are coming from completely different perspectives. Let me use a movie to illustrate.
Remember the last game in Rollerball, the original version? As mayhem continues and bodies are being drug off the track, the Black coach says to the white coach something about “we can do x and still win this game”. To which, the white coach says, “GAME?! This was never meant to be a game!”
I think you are like the first guy and I’m like the latter. My solution was to move to a small farm in central KY and cancel all health insurance the day Obamacare became effective and wait out the collapse. Your solution is to try to work within the system.
To me, the system is dead and we passed the point of this being fixed by a human solution about 15 years ago. The election of Obama just made it painfully obvious. I see the US as a dead country walking. My faith is in Jesus and I’ve abandoned any hope that there is a political solution to our country’s ills. We are, as a nation, getting what we deserve.
As I’ve said since November of 2008, in a democracy, you not only get the government you want. You get the government you deserve. And here we are.
My final post to you. My firearms training is that the correct sequence is Ready - Aim - Fire. The approach you take with EOs is Fire - Ready - Aim. There is a reason the founders of this great republic made the Legislative branch a deliberative one where emotional, impulsive laws are enacted. The light of day exposes much. Perhaps that is why only 17% of the jury of the American public only supported the AHCA. I regret DJT didn’t see it for what it was.
I hope you stay safe, well, and prosper, my FRiend.
Gwjack
If what you’re proposing is so great, you should have no trouble passing it without the support of conservatives.
And you’re going to have to. Because we will not succumb to permanent socialized medicine without a final battle for the heart and soul of this country.
Congress is the problem. We have factions that are demanding they get everything they want rather than passing legislation piece by piece to eliminate the negative impact of Obamacare. That isn't acceptable.
And, why blame Trump and not Paul Ryan? He needs to go as speaker. He's a failure.
>>“Attacking instead of working with Trump will just drive him into the arms of the Rinos or Dems. Chose wisely.”
>Chose wisely? Too late for that. Trump has made his choice already. And the fact he chose to side with the RINO’s cannot be blamed on a small minority of conservatives in the House.
Did Trump try to compromise with the conservatives in the house? Yes. Did they refuse him after all the other good things Trump has done for them? Yes. They struck the first blow, not Trump. Trump’s is and always has been a counter puncher. That’s just his nature.
>And watch and see if this bill ever does come to a vote? It’ll be the RINO’s who will stab Trump in the back. RINO’s who will not vote for it as they - like the dems - have planned to keep ObamaCare all along.
Better to identify our enemies and the disloyal through open votes than to let them hide behind the shield of those inflexible conservatives who won’t cut deals. I’d very much like to see them exposed, but to do so conservatives are going to have to show some loyalty to Trump.
>And if I’m wrong and RINO’s do pass RINOCare? Is it remotely possible that it will be any better than ObamaCare?
It will be a short term improvement. To fully fix the system we need more conservatives in congress and we’re going to get that by fighting each other or demanding full repeals that we don’t have the votes for.
“The idea is to work together, ....I live in Arizona and Obamacare is killing us...”
In that case, why didn’t we vote on the one unifying and promise-keeping thing the WHOLE dang party already agreed on and voted on - repeal?
And proceed from there, or concurrently, to remove any other fed regulations, mandates, subsidies, etc in the area of HC.
If you want something beyond the free market after that, then you should be bugging Arizona to meddle in the HC market there.
It seems illogical to act all offended when the small minority of members who still value the promise of Freedom and still respect the Founders’ fantastic gift of the Constitution to protect Freedom from democracy end up voting against more subsidies, mandates, etc.
If more on the Hill would have respected the first principle of the American ideal, freedom, and honored the oath to uphold the Constitution, then we would not be in this mess.
I find it hard to believe the fix is more socialism, especially from the one party whose platform is against it.
If this bill was about abortion, which of course the party opposes vehemently, then phase 1 would be to open more PP clinics and give tax credits to patrons.
In the Trump era, winning apparently involves an awful lot of losing.
I understand your arguments. I get them. Trump is using his typical bully tactics against the HFC.
Threats and intimidation have worked for him for years. He’s hoping that they will join forces with the Rats and RINO’s to draft something. Anything.
And whatever that is that comes from the Hill - he will sign it. I have no doubt about that at all.
Even you admit that will only be a “short term improvement”. I think that’s being optimistic. Yet you go on to say that the real answer will be “more conservatives in congress”. Well, yeah. Sure.
And did you leave the word “not” out in your last sentence?
Even if we had a 3rd party for POTUS we would STILL have the RINO’s in the house to deal with!! We have TRIED to send tea party people to D.C. and the swamp just SWALLOWS them up!!! HFC only FEW holding the line and people on this site are NOW BASHING them!!! I THOUGHT we ALL were for smaller government but I guess not so much anymore!!! Healthcare is such an important issue to have the government in control of it!!! EVERYONE needs to look at what kind of care our vets get and just ASK THEMSELVES if this is what they want for themselves and their families!!! The answer should be an easy one BUT maybe not anymore!!!
>Even you admit that will only be a “short term improvement”. I think that’s being optimistic.
Most of what the bill does is kick the pain down the road for a few more years and I rather have my doubts that the dems would allow it to pass in the senate. The point is if we’re going to let it fail, then we need to let the dems vote us down rather than the conservatives so we can use it against them. Also, Trump been very good to us so far and we should return the favor rather paying back his good deeds with a failure to compromise when there’s no possibility of getting a good bill through congress.
Remember that Trump’s greatest skill is his ability to own the downside. It would be far too easy for Trump to use our opposition as a pivot point to form a moderate collation and leave us out in the cold. I’d really rather not see that.
I concur whole-heartedly which is why I am in regular contact with all of my congress critters. They sure as heck can’t say they don’t know where I stand on the issues.
I don’t think that in any way conflicts with taking a stand on principal. It is their job to take in all of the relevant information, including material facts concerning the issues AND constituent opinion, and vote in the best interest of the country and their district.
Their oath includes protecting and defending the constitution so I can see cases where their constituents may want legislation passed that violates the constitution and they would be oath-bound to go against the will of the masses, ie the freaking original ACA.
No, winning takes teamwork AND brains. You move the ball, then you move the ball again. This is the dumbest thing I have ever seen. WORK TOGETHER
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.