The failing effort to add women to infantry, special operations forces

Tampa Bay Times ^ | 10/21/2016 | Dan O'Shea

[tekrat]

In January 2013, the Department of Defense announced it was removing the combat exclusion ban that kept women out of infantry units and special operations forces like Navy SEALs and Army Green Berets.

Where do we stand nearly four years later?

Former Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta argued, "If members of our military can meet the qualifications for a job — and let me be clear, we are not reducing qualifications — then they should have the right to serve."

And the day the change in policy was announced, Col. Ellen Haring of the U.S. Army Reserves, who filed a lawsuit challenging the combat exclusion ban, said, "Nobody ever asked for special considerations or reduced standards; just let us compete at the standards as they exist."

[PLMerite]

The only good thing about this is that when they sic the military on the American people, they won’t be as combat capable.

[hal ogen]

The pentagon self-preening LIB idiots get today’s NSS (No Sh** Sherlock) Award. Captain Obvious will be presenting it to them later today.

[Toughluck_freeper]

Is it a right to serve, or a privilege to serve?

If the later, then there should be no impetus to reduce the needed qualifications, be it for man, woman or any of the other sixty-some gender varieties.

[353FMG]

Won’t we need extra troops for the fight in Kirkuk and Mosul?

[353FMG]

How can we create families when we are aborting so many babies?

[elcid1970]

A little-known footnote to DACOWITS was a study that compared 100 fit young women to 100 fit young men.

It concluded that the ten strongest women were only as strong as the ten weakest men. Interesting, yes?

[Army Air Corps]

Spot on.

[central_va]

On average an “in shape” woman in here late teens early twenties is about as strong as a 14 year old boy.

[rdcbn]

I cannot tell if this is sarcasm, so I’ll bite:

The ability to fire a weapon is about 5% of combat arms activity. Being able to hump your own sack, carry a buddy, haul a mortar base plate, etc.

---

For quite a few of the Navy Seal ( and most Special Forces in general) mission profiles, if you have to shoot your gun something has went very wrong.

[Night Hides Not]

Shooting weapons is the sexy part everyone sees. But there’s a lot more to it than that.

As a platoon leader, I never got the chance to do the "fun stuff". During evaluations, I often helped my squads with their missile reloading drills, as our squads were usually undermanned. Both of my platoon sergeants (I commanded both Chaparral platoons at the time) were in their 40s, though in decent shape. Just made more sense for my jeep driver and me to pitch in.

Chaparral missiles weighed over 190 lbs, and it was a struggle with four men, let alone three, particularly when it's below 30 degrees and you have evaluators itching to mess with you.

In the above photo, the trickiest part has been performed, i.e. loading the missile on to the rail.

So much for fun...lol, at least I got a couple of trips to Crete during my four years (for missile live fire practice).

Please don't take it the wrong way: being a Platoon Leader for 18+ months was the most fun I had, although I had several other great jobs, such as a Battery Commander.

[SJSAMPLE]

I was in artillery of all types (canon, rocket and missile). The standard for 155mm loading called for a SINGLE man be able to lift and load the projectile. It became a “two-PERSON” lift when women were forced upon the combat arms.

I made five trips to Crete (NAMFI) myself. Good times.

[Mr Rogers]

Anyone whose base is being overrun can pick up a gun. But can they be inserted into enemy territory, and function all day for weeks on end with brutally heavy loads? If they are attacked by a man with a knife, as my SIL was, can they win in hand-to-hand fighting? Can they carry a 210 lb man out of harm’s way?

Infantry isn’t about picking up a gun and shooting it somewhere.

[Mariner]

I could bench press 225lbs at 14.

Very, very few women can do that at any age.

[musicman]

"Won’t we need extra troops
for the fight in Kirkuk and Mosul?...."



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[MichaelCorleone]

Why is that the only thing that should matter?

[lurk]

Wait. So you’re saying liberal ideas dreamed up with marajuana in a freshman dorm in a coastal state don’t actually work in real life?

[MichaelCorleone]

I didn’t see your post earlier. Very well said.

[drop 50 and fire for effect]

That is a low standard. Defense is less physically demanding than offense. To oversimplify it- you pick a good spot, set up good fields of fire, dig in, and wait for the SHTF.

It is the offense, moving by foot over distance and rough terrain (mountains, swamp, forest, jungle, etc...). Carry a heavy load that distance that can exceed 100 lbs of gear. Once you arrive, drop the gear where told, then advance to overrun some other poor bastard and make the SHTF for them.

There are few things in life more physically demanding and draining than an infantry foot march over distance and terrain.

[central_va]

Women Olympic soccer teams p[practice against Jr high teams.

[IronJack]

Well said. And points that need to be hammered home. It’s about more than combat. MUCH more ...