Serendipity yields a process to convert carbon dioxide directly into ethanol

Watts Up With That? ^ | October 18, 2016 | By Anthony Watts

[Brad from Tennessee]

OAK RIDGE, Tenn.,—In a new twist to waste-to-fuel technology, scientists at the Department of Energy’s Oak Ridge National Laboratory have developed an electrochemical process that uses tiny spikes of carbon and copper to turn carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas, into ethanol. Their finding, which involves nanofabrication and catalysis science, was serendipitous. Video follows.

“We discovered somewhat by accident that this material worked,” said ORNL’s Adam Rondinone, lead author of the team’s study published in ChemistrySelect. “We were trying to study the first step of a proposed reaction when we realized that the catalyst was doing the entire reaction on its own.”

The team used a catalyst made of carbon, copper and nitrogen and applied voltage to trigger a complicated chemical reaction that essentially reverses the combustion process. With the help of the nanotechnology-based catalyst which contains multiple reaction sites, the solution of carbon dioxide dissolved in water turned into ethanol with a yield of 63 percent. Typically, this type of electrochemical reaction results in a mix of several different products in small amounts. . .

[Boogieman]

I doubt any process we invent is ever going to be more efficient than just letting plants convert the sunlight into sugar and then letting yeast convert the sugars into ethanol.

[alloysteel]

If anything, ethanol is an even MORE dangerous compound than carbon dioxide....

This is simply short-circuiting the process of photosynthesis.

[ROCKLOBSTER]

Agreed, but I just run it straight, and run ‘em dry. Keep the rest in a sealed container. It’s very stable if isolated from the humidity.

My engines are even older than that. Since I figured it out, I don’t even have to tear down and clean my carburetors any more.

Although 2-strokers may be a different deal (and always more fussy) they haven’t used actual “rubber” parts in fuel systems for decades, alcohol doesn’t affect neoprene.

[justlurking]

Second law of thermodynamics.

[Gaffer]

Well, I’m here on earth. I presume you are too. What the hell kind of argument is that? You’ll first have to get to Mars (good luck with that, BTW) to even come up with such a silly question.

I DAMNED sure am not willing to destroy the wideband O2 sensors in my vehicles, rot the plastic reed gaskets in my 2 cycle engine carburetors, weaken and destroy gas lines, melt seals and corrode internal parts (ethanol-alcohol) that attracts and collects WATER.

I’ve been there and done that will all my engines and I know better. I’ve had to become very proficient in rebuilding 2 cycle carbs because of ethanol.

[Gaffer]

Its purpose isn’t one of efficiency or efficacy. It is purely political.

[UCANSEE2]

And I have been using stabilized E10 in my (4-cycle) small engines for 15 years with no negative issues whatsoever.

So.... you are paying extra to deal with the fact that ethanol and water produce a chemical that will destroy fuel lines, gaskets, and seals. Many of these small engines I am fixing were given to me, so I couldn't control what 'fuel' was used in them.

The fact is that ethanol is a problem, especially for older engines (not specifically made for ethanol).

Why do we even have to have ETHANOL ? It is not as energy efficient (so to speak) as gasoline. You get worse MILEAGE while using it.

[NorthMountain]

Many of these small engines I am fixing were given to me, so I couldn't control what 'fuel' was used in them.

So you don't really know what screwed them up. I really do know what has been used as fuel in my small engines, and how that fuel has been handled, and how long it has been in storage, and how long it has been in the engines.

Are these screwed up engines you're fixing 2-cycle or 4-cycle?

[fella]

All Right!!!

We can all get drunk for cheap now.

[UCANSEE2]

And FOR A FEW DOLLARS MORE you can buy ETHANOL STRIPPER to remove if from your gasoline.

Isn't it nice that we can buy things to remove things we didn't want that were ADDED into the things we did want (at an extra cost) ?

[ROCKLOBSTER]

Cheap octane booster IS NOT MANDATORY.

It is if you like your pistons.

Nor has anyone proven that the current Ethanol blends do more good than harm to engines that haven’t been needlessly ‘hardened’ (and made more expensive in the process).

Of course they have. Alcohol does not harm engines.

I have worn out, elderly lawn and garden equipment. The engines are just fine. We've had "gasahol" for maybe 30 years.

there is no government site, ethanol site or its proponents that can provide verifiable proof that ethanol in any concentration provides more efficiency than plain cracked gasoline.

They don't need to, "plain cracked gasoline" will ping like a bastard, you need to slow down the burn time with a higher "octane rating".

"Cracked gasoline" is made up of over 500 organic hydrocarbon compounds. Octane (eight carbon atoms)is the slow burn molecule that the "rating" is based on and desirable in our engines.p> I will never buy the efficacy-of-ethanol crap in any form whatsoever.

It's the PERCENTAGE! (I guess you didn't read my post)

How do you keep them from pinging...low compression and delayed spark...run real rich? Sounds like a stationary engine or Model T. You can run an ICE on just about anything...including diesel fuel, paint thinner, used anti-freeze and used motor oil or crude oil.

I've run my Tecumseh 8 horse snow blower on half diesel, and the air temp was around zero.

I KNOW better.

No you don't.

[UCANSEE2]

They need to find a way to use ethanol other than burning it.

All the politicians who FORCED it to be added to gasoline should be FORCED to just DRINK IT ALL.

[NorthMountain]

Why do we even have to have ETHANOL ?

This is an entirely separate question. For the most part, we need something as an octane booster. Ethanol performs that function. Tetra-ethyl lead and MTBE have been used in the past, but rejected for various reasons. Gasoline has been a blend of chemicals, not just straight petroleum distillate, for far longer than either of us has been alive.

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

But ethanol, as you know, has far greater uses than as a fuel for cars. A task for which it is poorly suited.

Think of the possibilities.

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

To change a low-energy-state substance, like Carbon Dioxide, into a fuel, like Ethanol, energy must be expended.

TANSTAAFL.

[Gaffer]

Of course they have. Alcohol does not harm engines.

Alcohol attracts and retains water and moisture. Prove it doesn't.

Also, you still cannot show me a site where ethanol added gas is more verifiably efficient.

You're just an ethanol blowhard with no evidence but invective and YOU are the one who "doesn't know better."

Gasoline current sold today is NOT more efficient than gasoline untainted by it.

[UCANSEE2]

It's a cheap and benign "octane" booster ...

I don't believe that is true. It does not raise the octane rating (unless it's mixed with very low octane rated gasoline. Which may be what you are saying)

and fuel system cleaner,

It will remove the following from your fuel system: Fuel lines, gaskets, seals, and the ability to get the engine to start or run.

And it's not the ethanol which causes the most damage. It is the chemical produced by the mixing of ethanol and water (water vapor accumulated in the tank).

We must immediately outlaw water vapor so we can continue to use ethanol. ; )

True, but gasoline has always had additives (lead, Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether)

True. And there were darn good reasons they had additives (like lead).

Oddly, though, when they QUIT adding things like LEAD (which the engines at the time NEEDED), they CHARGED US MORE.

[Safetgiver]

Alcohol does not harm engines......It doesn’t harm two-cycle engines but it DOES play hell with carburator gaskets. I replace all my gaskets every spring.

[Rebel_Ace]

"...You're right that it makes no sense burning something else to make electricity to make ethanol for energy purposes.
That leaves solar..."

Actually more than just solar. Wind turbines, Geothermal, Hydroelectric, even nukes. If you have some energy source that *might* produce unevenly, or you would like to run one *evenly* for efficiency, and store any excess, this *might* be a way to do it.

"...The question of efficiency is still legitimate.
Can they make, install and maintain a field of ethanol generating solar panels [or other energy source] that are more cost effective than planting and processing corn?
Or drilling for oil..."

Of course. As others have mentioned, it depends upon "what" is supplying the external energy, how long that infrastructure lasts, what materials are consumed in the process, how expensive are the nano structures to produce, how long do the catalysts remain effective, etc, etc.

My comment was more in response to the immediate, "knee jerk" reaction you often get here on FR of ANY announcement regarding research and discoveries in energy production, storage or efficiency gains.

It seems few here take into account that something "interesting" in the laboratory might require 20 years to become a commercial product. You cannot scoff at the baby steps that lead to better things.

[ROCKLOBSTER]

you are paying extra to deal with the fact that ethanol and water produce a chemical that will destroy fuel lines, gaskets, and seals.

Yes, that "chemical" is called "water", don't let it get in there. The gas cap has a hole in it. You don't really need to buy stabil if you keep the water out.

Many of these small engines I am fixing were given to me, so I couldn't control what 'fuel' was used in them.

You're "fixing" the carburetors (mostly cleaning) Don't let them sit with water in the bowl, they'll actually freeze into an ice cube in the winter time.

The fact is that ethanol is a problem, especially for older engines (not specifically made for ethanol).

They haven't used rubber parts in decades. The gum is likely varnish from the fuel tank, dissolved by the alcohol. It will be fine once the tank is clean and the filter changed. Run the carb dry when you're done. Put a piece of plastic bag over the fuel tank opening and screw the cap on....take it off before you use it again.

Why do we even have to have ETHANOL ?

Answer #1. You don't, you can buy AVGAS, or boat gas at the marina.
Answer #2. Because the RATs/RINOs, and the ethanol lobby politicized and mandated it.
Answer #3. Because MTBE and lead was very toxic.

Now they've screwed up diesel and diesel engines.

It is not as energy efficient (so to speak) as gasoline. You get worse MILEAGE while using it.

That's because there's too much of it, as a percentage, in the pump gas.