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Australia Post details plan to use blockchain for voting (Stop Electronic Vote Fraud)
ZDNet ^ | August 22, 2016 | Chris Duckett

Posted on 09/11/2016 11:47:57 AM PDT by Hostage

"Postal service wants to begin with small corporate and civic elections before ramping up to handle a full parliamentary election."

Australia Post is looking to move into the business of running elections, and plans to use the blockchain as a central pillar of its plan.

In a submission to the Victorian Electoral Matters Committee, the government-owned postal service said community expectations were driving the push towards digital voting, and it would be looking to put its prior work with blockchain to use.

"The emergence of crypto currencies on the technology known as blockchain have highlighted opportunities to repurpose that technology to capture various digital transactions in immutable, distributed and secure ways," Australia Post State Director, Victorian Government and Tasmania, Tim Adamson, said in the submission.

(Excerpt) Read more at zdnet.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: australia; blockchaintech; elections; electronicvoting; voting
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To: discostu

You cannot tamper with a vote that has been transmitted to the blockchain because it’s a separate transmission.

For touchscreens on a block chain input device, one would have to rewire the device’s input interface and cause the vote to flip before it reached the device’s transmission chip. Not going to happen because the polling station staff can see immediately what was transmitted during initial tests when booting up and because the tampering would have to coordinate the ballot names with the rewiring; extreme low probability of that ever happening.

If the touchscreen were tampered with, then every vote would be flipped, not just one ‘here and there’. The ‘here and there’ scheme can be used in current unsecure machines to evade detection of tampering but it requires software to execute it, but there can be no software in a blockchain device on a widespread basis unless every blockchain device was opened up and back-fitted with chips between the input interface and the transmission chip. that’s not going to happen because additional security is easy to add to ensure that the improper opening of a blockchain device immediately disables the device.

If a blockchain compliant MFG were to have an assembler illegally install chip components between the input interfaces and transmission chips, then a procedure of testing at the polling stations could detect irregularities and remove the machines from service, default to special paper ballots and report to election authorities who would by law be compelled to call in law enforcement investigators. In such a case, the device OEM would be in a lot of trouble.

Hacking into the input interfaces of so many blockchain devices would point to a massive conspiracy. Pushing a button or a touchscreen immediately sends a signal to the transmission chip which encrypts and transmits, it is not stored. There is no software between the touchscreen and the transmission chip. So an authorized break-in would be isolated and rare and end up disabling the device.

The trouble and confusion an isolated incident would cause would lead to an investigation of what happened and would be traceable back to the device manufacturer who would have been previously certified as blockchain compliant. If the MFG’s process of securing the devices were to be found to be compromised, the federal or state government could yank their license and certification.

Again, such incidents would be rare and isolated just as they are now. What is of tremendous concern now is that current unsecure electronic machines can be easily tampered with without witnesses. The people working the polling stations are unable to see the tampering unless they are keeping separate hand tallies to cross check the current machines (they are not doing this). And what makes this such a large concern is that the tampering can happen to many machines in many districts statewide without officials knowing about it, and with no trace. For example, a stack of infected memory cards can be dispatched by unknowing officials to polling stations statewide.

As for people complaining that current existing unsecure machines do not record their vote correctly, that is very isolated and it is not true that nothing is done about it. Reports of those isolated events show polling station workers removing such machines from service.


81 posted on 09/12/2016 12:05:10 PM PDT by Hostage (ARTICLE V):)
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To: Hostage

There HAS to be a database of voters. Without it you have no ability to keep ineligible voters out.

How is the voter registration table supposed to have a printed book without a database? They can’t.

BOOM you just admitted blockchain is useless. Finally you understand WHERE THE FRAUD ACTUALLY HAPPENS. 30 times I’ve told you the fraud happens before blockchain ever gets involved and finally you’ve said it does.

No blockchain can’t eliminate electronic fraud. Because that fraud (AGAIN) happens BEFORE BLOCKCHAIN EVER GETS INVOLVED.

Voter ID and fraud is NOT a separate issue. It’s the primary form of vote fraud. If you ain’t fixing that you’re NOT STOPPING VOTE FRAUD.

No, the voter can verify the machine SAYS their vote is what they say it is. Doesn’t mean the machine’s not BSing them. Your computer lies to you constantly, just copy a large block of files from 1 point to another and watch that progress bar and the estimate. We in the industry program computers to lie as a matter of course. Programming the computer to display the vote you thought you cast while inserting into the blockchain the vote we wanted is the easiest thing in the world.

Separate transmission device == downstream. Vote fraud happens at the UI.

Getting rid of those machines won’t help. Blockchain won’t control the size of the buttons or the recording of the button clicks. That’s where electronic fraud happens.

The voter’s vote is changed before it ever gets in the chain. They might display the legit vote, but much like how that copy operation is going to take longer than the 5 minutes the OS says, the display is a lie.


82 posted on 09/12/2016 12:14:38 PM PDT by discostu (If you need to load or unload go to the white zone, you'll love it, it's a way of life)
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To: palmer

The registrar isn’t going to look 500 different databases scattered around the country (your Virginia resident could have a felony in AZ) every single time they need to make a blockchain. They’re going to look at ONE database: the voter registration database. The one they already look at every single day. The one we all know is filled with crap data. It doesn’t even need to be hacked, it’s already junk.

As long as humans have anything to do with the maintenance of the data there WILL BE A DATABASE. The blockchain will be made from the database, and at that point garbage in garbage out.

I am specific. You just don’t like what I’m saying so you keep pointlessly arguing there won’t be a database even though you know full well there WILL BE A DATABASE.


83 posted on 09/12/2016 12:18:24 PM PDT by discostu (If you need to load or unload go to the white zone, you'll love it, it's a way of life)
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To: Vermont Lt

Here’s the 8-minute hack video that is causing so much concern:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t75xvZ3osFg

And such hacking and other easy means of hacking, have been confirmed by Princeton Universiy researchers as well as numerous other private organizations and groups, and in testimony of programmers before Congress. So it’s real.

Here’s a week-old report on a Poli-Sci professor’s analysis that points out that as little as 17 counties out of more than 3400 counties in the USA, can tip the election from one nominee to the other.

http://www.breitbart.com/california/2016/09/05/presidential-election-determined-just-17-counties/

If current unsecure easily-hacked machines are deployed in such counties, then it is possible to steal the nationwide election via an Electoral College pathway.

A possible landslide win by Trump coupled with an EC win for whoever the democrats put up will very likely lead to anarchy and riots. If the popular vote is close, then it can be a repeat of Gore-Bush 2000.

Blockchain Tech is for future elections. For this election, it is imperative that people get involved in battleground counties and challenge machines (which is very hard to do). It will probably entail finding probable cause and seeking an emergency TRO to set aside the machines and default to paper ballots. Paper ballot counting can be witnessed in the open air. Machine internal counting is invisible.


84 posted on 09/12/2016 12:28:23 PM PDT by Hostage (ARTICLE V):)
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To: Hostage

You don’t have to rewire anything. The touchscreen is going to be driven by software. That software is going to define buttons that are displayed on the screen. That software will register votes based on how those buttons are pushed. Any first semester VB programmer can make those buttons read whatever the hell they want, whenever the hell they want, regardless of what the button says.

You don’t have to flip every vote. Just plug a little generation of a random number into your button processing loop, if the number is right flip the vote. Or screw with the definition of the button, make certain pixels on the button a different button that triggers the candidate’s button. This is freshman stuff, bored programmers monkey with this kind of thing all the time. Hell you can easily even VW it, wire it too work perfectly until the date is election day, so they can’t even find it in testing.

You don’t need chips inbetween the input and transmission. you do all the tampering on the input. It’s easy. Software has to run those button, and that software whatever the programmers want it to.

Do you have a single manufacturer? No massive conspiracy necessary. Just one programmer.

Only reason they’re rare and isolated now is that so many districts are too cheap to switch to the fancy machines. most of America is still coloring circles or punching holes. Of course those go through a card reader.

Sometimes they get removed. AFTER somebody complains and IF the complaint is believed. How many times did they download their votes before then? Are we throwing out all the votes that were sitting on there? Not to mention those are just the times the programmer was lazy enough to let the user actually see the vote misrecorded.


85 posted on 09/12/2016 12:28:43 PM PDT by discostu (If you need to load or unload go to the white zone, you'll love it, it's a way of life)
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To: discostu

> “There HAS to be a database of voters. Without it you have no ability to keep ineligible voters out.”

There is a database of voters but it’s not on the blockchain.

> “BOOM you just admitted blockchain is useless.”

That’s news to me.

> “No blockchain can’t eliminate electronic fraud. Because that fraud (AGAIN) happens BEFORE BLOCKCHAIN EVER GETS INVOLVED.”

That was already addressed to you in a previous recent post to you. The blockchain is not downstream of input interfaces. It has its own separate transmission devices.

> “Voter ID and fraud is NOT a separate issue. It’s the primary form of vote fraud. If you ain’t fixing that you’re NOT STOPPING VOTE FRAUD.”

It is a separately managed issue. The blockchain tech addresses electronic fraud from device input to the blockchain, not from polling check-in to the polling booth.

> “No, the voter can verify the machine SAYS their vote is what they say it is. Doesn’t mean the machine’s not BSing them.”

Already addressed in the previous post to you here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3468215/posts?page=81#81

Read the post linked above for the rest of your comments.


86 posted on 09/12/2016 12:38:06 PM PDT by Hostage (ARTICLE V):)
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To: Hostage

What’s hilarious is one of you panacea junkies keeps insisting there is no database, it’s all the chain. And you’re saying there is a database not on the chain. And you’re both in denial, just different kinds. If the database isn’t on the chain then the database is unsecured, and the primary avenue of vote fraud is still wide open and therefore your chain didn’t solve a damn thing.

You’re so twisted up trying to force this system to work that you don’t even realize you’re contradicting yourself. If it has its own separate transmission devices then those MUST BE DOWNSTREAM FROM THE INPUT INTERFACE.

No you didn’t address it. You just keep slamming your ruby slippers together insisting it will work. It won’t. I’ve explained it to you a dozen times and you’re still clicking your heels.


87 posted on 09/12/2016 12:44:37 PM PDT by discostu (If you need to load or unload go to the white zone, you'll love it, it's a way of life)
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To: discostu

> “The touchscreen is going to be driven by software.”

That’s not true. Touchscreens are input signal devices. They do not store inputs.

> “You don’t have to flip every vote. Just plug a little generation of a random number into your button processing loop”

Already addressed in a previous post to you here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3468215/posts?page=81#81

A random number device would require software and memory. No such software or hardware exists inside a compliant blockchain device.

The blockchain device is simple: INPUT-ENCRYPTION-TRANSMISSION.

To do what you are proposing would require a massive conspiracy, a rewiring and back-fitting of thousands of machines. Not going to happen because of blockchain configuration and auditing, and because OEMs would face prison.

> “You don’t need chips inbetween the input and transmission. you do all the tampering on the input. It’s easy. Software has to run those button, and that software whatever the programmers want it to.”

The output of a software executable is carried in bit patterns along data buslines. The bits would have to hit a hard interface at some point. No such interface exists between input and transmission hardware. To do what you are describing entails hardwire back-fitting the device. Not going to happen.

> “Do you have a single manufacturer? No massive conspiracy necessary. Just one programmer.”

There is nothing programmable on a blockchain device.

> “Only reason they’re rare and isolated now is that so many districts are too cheap to switch to the fancy machines. most of America is still coloring circles or punching holes. Of course those go through a card reader.”

That has nothing to with implementing blockchain compliant devices. If anything, it should compel implementation of blockchain compliant devices.


88 posted on 09/12/2016 12:53:22 PM PDT by Hostage (ARTICLE V):)
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To: discostu

> “What’s hilarious is one of you panacea junkies keeps insisting there is no database, it’s all the chain. “

Now you’re starting to insult. This has already been addressed to you in several previous posts. There is no voter database on the blockchain. It is a list of transactions, not a database.

> “You’re so twisted up trying to force this system to work that you don’t even realize you’re contradicting yourself. If it has its own separate transmission devices then those MUST BE DOWNSTREAM FROM THE INPUT INTERFACE.”

Downstream means in other components internally or in other devices externally.

One very small hardware component can contain the simple blockchain configuration which is INPUT-ENCRYPT-TRANSMIT. There is no ‘downstream’ in a single component unless you install a replacement component. That has zero probability because there has to be an encryption seed that must be replicated in a component replacement and that seed is unknowable to a hacker. The OEM may know how to do it but they can land in prison if a 3rd party tester discovers what they did.

The rest of your comments have degenerated into insulting. Evidently you have nothing to contribute and everyone reading can see it.


89 posted on 09/12/2016 1:03:59 PM PDT by Hostage (ARTICLE V):)
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To: Hostage

I didn’t say they stored inputs. I said they’re DRIVEN BY SOFTWARE. Just like your keyboard. Depending on your OS you’re about 8 mouse clicks away from switching your keyboard to dvorak, after you did that every time you pushed the E on your keyboard you’d get a . , unless you had shift down then it would be > . Your keyboard doesn’t store inputs, but it is driven by software. Just like a touchscreen.

There HAS to be software in the device. Otherwise you can’t display buttons or record clicks. You’re really going off into crazy land here.

And screwing with your blockchain device is simple: FRAUD-ENCRYPTION-TOO LATE TO FIX ANYTHING.

I already explained to you why it doesn’t take a massive conspiracy. People committing voter fraud already face prison so clearly THAT’S not stopping anybody.

Of course there’s a hard interface in there. Do you actually know anything about how computers WORK? There’s a whole bunch of hard interface inbetween input and transmission. That’s where the OS lives, and the software to drive both the input and the transmission. You need to crack open a laptop and look at all the stuff in there between the screen cable and the RJ45 jack.

If there’s nothing programmable then how is it going to know the list of candidates? Hell if there’s nothing programmable how will it display anything? How will it be part of a blockchain? Really, you’re going deeper and deeper into fantasy land trying to make this system work. Of course it’s programmable. Time you started THINKING more and DECLARING less, because your declarations have gotten down right silly.


90 posted on 09/12/2016 1:10:25 PM PDT by discostu (If you need to load or unload go to the white zone, you'll love it, it's a way of life)
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To: Hostage

You need to be insulted. You’re putting so much effort into ignoring basic concepts of reality you’re turning into a 5 year old. At this point you’re basically just yelling “nu uh”. There is a database of voters, as you already admitted.

No, downstream means another step in the software. Could be a component, could be a device, but it doesn’t have to be. It just has to be a chunk of software that runs later. See look even your diagram shows transmit is down stream from input. And all the fraud is happening at input. Your diagram just proved me right. There is ALWAYS downstream, because you have GET data before you can ENCRYPT or TRANSMIT data, and if the data you’re getting is crap...

I’ve got plenty to contribute. I’ve proven you wrong every single step of the way. It’s not my fault you refuse to listen to simple reason, and clearly don’t know anything about software design, or even basic meaning of words. If you’d just be smart enough to admit that the thing that happens 3rd in your flow chart is downstream from the thing that happens 1st you’d have figured out you were wrong yesterday.


91 posted on 09/12/2016 1:16:00 PM PDT by discostu (If you need to load or unload go to the white zone, you'll love it, it's a way of life)
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To: discostu

> “I said they’re DRIVEN BY SOFTWARE.”

Ascii and other character encodings are elements of processing.

The only processing in a blockchain device is an encryption encoding of the vote.

What you seem to be trying to shoehorn here is changing ‘00’ to ‘01’ at the input device, and you’ve alluded recently to random number software to pull off a ‘here and there’ scheme to steal an election.

The problem for you to explain is how you pull this off in a device where there is no processing other than encryption.

You would have to change the hardware or install new hardware inside the device. Both of these are impossible.

Changing the microcode on internal hardware means you would lose the encryption key, so you’ve destroyed the blockchain device’s functioning with the blockchain. You would have to resort to doing that at the OEM facility and then somehow pass 3rd party testing. And there could be multiple independent 3rd party testers.

Installing new hardware in a device that can be as small as your thumb means you either destroy the device or you have to connect to the devices hardware bus and end up destroying that too.

Taking apart the touchscreen interface and disconnecting it from the blockchain encryption-transmission component to install another component to do what you say to do would entail opening the blockchain device without authorization causing it to disable itself.

> “There HAS to be software in the device. Otherwise you can’t display buttons or record clicks.”

There is no software executable in a blockchain device other than encryption. What you are referring to is a representation of a ballot on a screen with touchscreen coordinates to send the voter’s choice to the internal blockchain component. Such a representation could be a conformable pdf or jpeg file that has no physical connection or wiring with the touchscreen coordinates.

And touchscreens are not even necessary. A blank paper ballot could be encased in glass on each voting booth wall with instructions to push 1 for Trump and 2 for whoever on a firmly affixed and hardened keypad.

Touchscreen images are shown on a screen to indicate where signals can be initiated. The picture representation of that touchscreen has no executable to drive anything. It is simply an image overlay covering the screen’s input signaling coordinates. The elections offices or polling stations will have procedures to test the images against the signaling, e.g. pressing ‘Trump’ results in a vote for Trump, etc. There is no software to change anything.

> “And screwing with your blockchain device is simple: FRAUD-ENCRYPTION-TOO LATE TO FIX ANYTHING.”

Explain how you get the ‘fraud’ in the configuration without software executables and without hardware changes because the blockchain device does not have software executables nor does it allow hardware changes.

> “I already explained to you why it doesn’t take a massive conspiracy. People committing voter fraud already face prison so clearly THAT’S not stopping anybody.”

What have you explained? You commented that blockchain tech doesn’t stop fraud at the polling station check-in table. And it has been made clear to you that no one suggested that blockchain tech would solve paper fraud, it will solve only electronic fraud.

> “There’s a whole bunch of hard interface inbetween input and transmission. That’s where the OS lives, and the software to drive both the input and the transmission. You need to crack open a laptop and look at all the stuff in there between the screen cable and the RJ45 jack.”

A whole bunch? What does ‘bunch’ mean? What OS? What laptop? What RJ45 jack? You are mixing laptop jargon with a simple blockchain device. The two things are very different.

A screen ribbon is not essential. There are infrared options available for the internals of the device.

Once the bit encoding is present on the input port of the encryption accumulator, the encryption generator hashes the input code and transmits it at once. There is no recording stored, there is no storage component.

To get the fraud that you are trying to describe would entail changing the hardware internals of the device or changing the image overlay loaded into the touchscreen. But a fraudulent image would cause every vote to be in error. The poll staff will see that easily. So it’s not going to happen.

The rest of your comments has been addressed by the above.


92 posted on 09/12/2016 2:13:33 PM PDT by Hostage (ARTICLE V):)
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To: Hostage

Processing == software. That’s the same thing.

No the machine has to have lots more processing/ software than that. You’ve got a touchscreen display to run, data to cache because you’re probably not going to get the entire ballot on one screen, plus there’s some sort of communication protocol going on to send your encrypted data.

That’s no shoehorn, that’s SOFTWARE, or processing if you insist. Because it’s not a 00 or a 01 it’s a “screen detected contract at these coordinates” and then you’ve got to do something with that.

There MUST be processing other than encryption. How else are you putting buttons on the screen and getting votes?

Nobody is losing the encryption because of the software. Yes the OEM facility where the software is being written would be the place monkeying with it, just like in current voting machine, and passing testing is easy (I already explained to you one of MANY ways to do that).

Don’t have to install new hardware. And the device isn’t going to be smaller than your thumb, kind of hard to use a touchscreen that small.

It’s not just a representation of the ballot, it has to DO something. People have to be able to push on parts of that JPG and register votes. There HAS TO BE SOFTWARE to do that. You’re insistence otherwise is laughable.

Hardened keypads are still driven by software, as I already explained to you.

No the picture most certainly DOES have an executable to drive things. Just like the buttons below where I’m typing now. There is executable code that happens when I click on Spell or Post, if there wasn’t nothing would happen when the get pushed on, much like the grey space to the right.

There must be software executables. And that’s where the fraud lives.

A “whole bunch” means there’s a mother board and chips and long term storage that has things on it that drive the keyboard, screen and JR45. None of that is jargon, that’s HOW COMPUTERS WORK. Including your precious blockchain devices. “Devices” are COMPUTERS. Just like you smart phone, or TV or even microwave (yes, your microwave has a computer in it, these days probably a second or third gen pentium).

The screen has to connect to the motherboard somehow. And it ain’t through infrared.

Of course there’s a storage component. Without storage you have no data to encrypt nor any encrypted data to transmit. And I’m pointing out that data is where the fraud happens.

Nope, to get fraud all you need is the company that writes the software that drives the input device to be corrupt. Same thing you need now.


93 posted on 09/12/2016 2:35:27 PM PDT by discostu (If you need to load or unload go to the white zone, you'll love it, it's a way of life)
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To: discostu
> "Processing == software. That’s the same thing."

Really? So a software program is considered to be a software executable?

> "No the machine has to have lots more processing/ software than that. You’ve got a touchscreen display to run, data to cache because you’re probably not going to get the entire ballot on one screen, plus there’s some sort of communication protocol going on to send your encrypted data."

What if there is no touchscreen? What then?

> "Nobody is losing the encryption because of the software. Yes the OEM facility where the software is being written would be the place monkeying with it, just like in current voting machine, and passing testing is easy (I already explained to you one of MANY ways to do that)."

Do you think 3rd party testers would detect tampering by persons at the OEM?

> "Don’t have to install new hardware. And the device isn’t going to be smaller than your thumb, kind of hard to use a touchscreen that small."

Did I say device or component when referring to a small size?

> "It’s not just a representation of the ballot, it has to DO something. People have to be able to push on parts of that JPG and register votes. There HAS TO BE SOFTWARE to do that. You’re insistence otherwise is laughable."

So you say every touchscreen coordinate input has to be linked to an image overlay? Didn't you know there are touchscreens with infrared sensors that are linked only to the physical screen and not to any overlay?

And again, what if there is no touchscreen inside the voting booth?

> "Hardened keypads are still driven by software, as I already explained to you."

Hardened keypads exist that are mechanically linked to an electronic circuit of gates that do nothing more than present a bit pattern from a mechanical input. No software involved, all hardware and electronics.

> "There must be software executables. And that’s where the fraud lives."

Where can the fraud live? How is it input and what processes it? Does the OEM create it? Would OEMs readily commit felonies knowing their products would be tested by numerous independent 3rd party testers? Do they think they are smarter than everyone else in the world?

> "A “whole bunch” means there’s a mother board and chips and long term storage that has things on it that drive the keyboard, screen and JR45. None of that is jargon, that’s HOW COMPUTERS WORK. Including your precious blockchain devices. “Devices” are COMPUTERS. Just like you smart phone, or TV or even microwave (yes, your microwave has a computer in it, these days probably a second or third gen pentium)."

Who said all devices are computers with a motherboard that drives all the things you listed? Are all electronic devices computers?

Is the above a computer? It's a UJT but it's programmable. So because it's programmable, does that mean it has an OS, a motherboard, a keyboard and such?

> "The screen has to connect to the motherboard somehow. And it ain’t through infrared."

Modalities of infrared coordinate signaling exist behind touchscreens and convey internal signals optically to other components. Why do you say they don't exist, when in fact, they most certainly do exist?

Not only do infrared touch technologies exist, there also exist pro-cap touch technologies whereby a touch is detected by a finger/stylus in contact with the surface signaling a change in the EM field and capacitance.

Both technologies require no software or computer to function. They simply sense touch on a coordinate plane and the coordinates are relayed optically or by physical ribbon.

> "Of course there’s a storage component. Without storage you have no data to encrypt nor any encrypted data to transmit. And I’m pointing out that data is where the fraud happens."

Storage or temporary registers? Do you think they are the same?

Processors need only registers. They can be very simple like putting bits in a register through a NOR gate to create a different pattern.

A blockchain device can be real simple performing only an encryption of an input to a register, added to another register containing a code from a seeded generator and presented to a transmitter. The input can originate mechanically and be transformed to a bit pattern by an electronic component. No processing or storage necessary for the input device. Minimal processing (very minimal) of the presented input, and no processing or storage for the transmission, just signal movement.

The flow of activity of a blockchain device can be driven by internal clocks as is found in most processing technology components. The only differentiating processing is in the encryption. Otherwise, there is nothing more that can be done with such a device. It's a dumb but secure device for conveying simple data.

94 posted on 09/12/2016 4:51:46 PM PDT by Hostage (ARTICLE V):)
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To: All

For those who get blurry-eyed while trying to plod through all the technicalese above, think of blockchain technology in this way:

You have a piece of healthy and yummy candy you wish to give to a person of your choice. You take your candy to a facility where you want to leave it for your chosen person.

The facility directs you to a booth where you put your piece of candy into a candy wrapper. The candy wrapper is very beautiful with lots of patterns on it and ... you learn that the wrapper that was used is unique one of a kind but that exact copies of your wrapper are given to a few special others who are secretly selected to receive exact recipe information about your candy.

These selected special others know nothing about you and they don’t even know each other, but they know about your candy and its wrapper. And again the only way they can learn the exact recipe information about your candy is by possessing an exact copy of your unique wrapper. They show an exact copy of your wrapper and they receive complete and exact recipe information about your candy.

You leave your candy inside its wrapper on a lightning fast conveyor belt and you are able to see your candy get to where it’s going in an instant and to see that those that were specially selected to know about your exact candy recipe (because they had an exact matching copy of your wrapper), that they indeed faithfully know everything about your candy, but nothing about you. You can see that they got the correct recipe. No one else can see that it was you that put that candy into its unique wrapper. But, everyone can see an image of the beautiful candy that you dropped off, they just can’t see you.

To make sure the recipe information about your candy that was sent in its unique wrapper cannot be changed or lost or stolen, the special selected others will have a copy to prove what was dropped off.

And that is pretty much the story about blockchain candy.

Oh, and one last closing remark. Your candy is healthy and yummy only if you dropped it off for Donald J. Trump. If you dropped it off for any of his opponents, then your candy is complete garbage, toxic and poisonous....and I don’t even want to talk to you!

Got it? Ok, class dismissed.


95 posted on 09/12/2016 5:39:04 PM PDT by Hostage (ARTICLE V):)
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To: discostu; Hostage
What’s hilarious is one of you panacea junkies keeps insisting there is no database, it’s all the chain.

That would be panacea junkie me. There is no voter database. Everything you described like residency, crime records, etc is already in a database. Why make another database to combine that stuff just so it can be hacked? You are a database junkie. Do you work for Oracle, in sales perhaps?

What Hostage is describing is a retrofit of the current voting systems and that voting system includes databases of registered voters. He uses the blockchain just to tally votes.

I am proposing t a complete elimination of the voter database, replaced with a blockchain to register voters and to tally votes. No voter database. Your answer is that I should know full well that they will never get rid of the voter database, just like they will never get rid of the horse and buggy. And you are right, there are still horses and buggies around.

96 posted on 09/12/2016 7:36:14 PM PDT by palmer (turn into nonpaper w no identifying heading and send nonsecure)
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To: palmer

That’s an interesting idea to set up a blockchain to register voters.

Does it mean the registrations would have to be performed for each election?

The current registrations would expire and be purged a certain time after recent elections?

How would you compartmentalize a voter’s personal info from how they voted?

A blockchain of voter registrations could solve a lot of fraud problems that currently run in the existing voter databases.


97 posted on 09/12/2016 11:43:00 PM PDT by Hostage (ARTICLE V):)
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To: Hostage
Does it mean the registrations would have to be performed for each election?

I would like to do that. Every election a valid voter could turn invalid (death, felony, moved, etc). To reregister, the voter would create a new private key / public key pair, send the public key and voting credentials to the registrar. The registrar would canonicalize the credentials (very important to prevent multiple registrations), then hash them, then check the blockchain for prior registrations. If none, then the hash will be added as part of a transaction to the hashed public key. The voter could see their hashed public key and know they have the right to vote.

The current registrations would expire and be purged a certain time after recent elections?

The bitcoin / cryptocurrency mantra is that bitcoins can never be purged or expire, it is part of their egalitarian philosophy. A privately operated version of the blockchain can't really purge either. But expiration is possible. If you were issued the credit to vote in one particular election by a transaction and you missed the election, and then you tried to spend that credit in the next election it could be not counted by policy. That would not be hard to enforce without invalidating and valid votes.

How would you compartmentalize a voter’s personal info from how they voted?

The voter's personal information is canonicalized and turned into a hash. That hash is stored on the blockchain as part of the transaction that credits the voter with one vote in the upcoming election. The hash cannot be reversed to find out the private info. However private info could be hashed in a brute force algorithm to try to match up with the hashed in the blockchain to find out how people voted. To prevent that I would have the registrar encrypt the hash before adding it to the blockchain with the registration transaction.

Keep in mind I am an applied cryptographer, not a cryptanalyst. I just implement the code, someone else designs it or at least reviews it to look for weaknesses and bugs. I also do blockchain and the same caveat applies. I can see some potential weaknesses, and can by no means make an exhaustive list.

For one thing we would want to prevent people from registering more than once with different addresses (e.g. mother's basement, college dorm, shared apartment). The blockchain has just a hash or encrypted hash so it is harder to figure that out than with a database. If the registration uses name and date of birth that might eliminate the multiple address problem, but the registrar has to access a date of birth database that can't be hacked or corrupted. I don't have enough familiarity with such a database to know what to do. Also there can be same name individuals with the same DoB.

Tackling the multiple registration problem across different jurisdictions is difficult. To check that some student doesn't register and vote in both Virginia and Ohio means that the registrar in Virginia has to check Ohio and vice versa potentially in hundreds of localities unless each state runs a single blockchain. With encrypted hashes the checking state would have to submit their unencrypted hash to the registrar in the other state. The other state would encrypt and look for matches in their blockchain. The presence of a match could be a false positive that could prevent a legitimate voter from registering. And like I said, there are undoubtedly other problems with my incomplete design.

98 posted on 09/13/2016 5:16:09 AM PDT by palmer (turn into nonpaper w no identifying heading and send nonsecure)
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To: palmer

Problem they’re in MULTIPLE database, scattered around the country. The registrar’s office MUST have a database to work with. I’m a usable product junkie. They can’t operate without a database. And really as an old friend said “ALL software is database driven, because in the end ALL software is about the storage and retrieval of data.”

You can’t eliminate the database. Without the database you have to voter registration data. Even if you turn the DB into a blockchain (which seems to be maybe what you would be saying if you hadn’t decided database was a 4 letter word) it’s still a database, there’s still fallible humans in charge of it, and if somebody can legitimately add, subtract and modify data in it then somebody can ILLEGITIMATELY add, subtract and modify data. Nothing is unhackable, it’s just that somethings are best hacked through social engineering and getting somebody’s password.


99 posted on 09/13/2016 7:42:16 AM PDT by discostu (If you need to load or unload go to the white zone, you'll love it, it's a way of life)
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To: Hostage

You really just have no idea how computers work do you? Yes ALL processing of ANY KIND is SOFTWARE. Every single thing your computer does it does because software told it to. From turning a pixel a certain color to recognizing a keystroke to working with data it is ALL the result of human written software. That software might or might not be an executable. It could be software in the OS, it could be software in a chip. But there is ALWAYS software involved.

And that software is generally written by way fewer people than you think. And can be gamed literally because 1 single person chose to game it.

I’ve led you to water for the last time. Drink or die of dehydration, I don’t care. Your idea will not work. I’ve explained to you multiple time why it is just silly. And the best argument you can come up with is magical thinking that grossly disregards the basic concepts of how computers work.


100 posted on 09/13/2016 7:46:52 AM PDT by discostu (If you need to load or unload go to the white zone, you'll love it, it's a way of life)
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