Posted on 09/11/2016 11:47:57 AM PDT by Hostage
"Postal service wants to begin with small corporate and civic elections before ramping up to handle a full parliamentary election."
Australia Post is looking to move into the business of running elections, and plans to use the blockchain as a central pillar of its plan.
In a submission to the Victorian Electoral Matters Committee, the government-owned postal service said community expectations were driving the push towards digital voting, and it would be looking to put its prior work with blockchain to use.
"The emergence of crypto currencies on the technology known as blockchain have highlighted opportunities to repurpose that technology to capture various digital transactions in immutable, distributed and secure ways," Australia Post State Director, Victorian Government and Tasmania, Tim Adamson, said in the submission.
(Excerpt) Read more at zdnet.com ...
One way registration could work is that you verify your address through some method. The registrar would take your address information, and your public key, and hash the address information to make you have not registered before. Obviously you could cheat by altering your address slightly and registering again. But there are ways to canonicalize the address. Nothing in registration is foolproof or cheat proof.
Also smartphones will be very handy in regards to fighting possible voter fraud.Use them.
It does. You need to learn about PKI. The private key is encrypted in your phone or computer, plus an encrypted backup. If someone wants to vote as you they need to hack your phone or computer, but also need to decrypt the private key. The malware can watch you vote and grab the private key when you use it to vote. But that is difficult and getting more difficult thanks to private key protection being developed for cryptocurrency.
When you use your private key to vote, it is because you have been granted one vote by a blockchain transaction. The transaction allows your public key to register one vote (actually your address which is derived from your public key). As I said all along, and I will repeat, the registrar has to make sure they don't grant you more than one vote capability i.e. you are not able to register more than one blockchain address. That is a registration problem that is not solved by blockchain. But once they have your canonical physical address matched up to your blockchain address, you get one vote. Counting is easy is can't be faked or hacked. Again, the only problem is the registration process, anything else is a red herring.
It can be a landslide but you’re still missing the point that Soros has already admitted to. They expect Trump to win the popular vote but lose the EC.
In 2000, 101,455,899 voted for President of which 50,456,002 (47.9%) voted for Bush and 50,999,897 (48.4%) voted for Gore. The percent difference was 0.5%. Very close. Gore barely won the popular vote and as many correctly point out, the FL panhandle quit and went home when it was announced that Gore had won FL. So the popular vote could very well have been much narrower in Gore’s favor or even in Bush’s favor if there were not games by the media networks in calling results prematurely.
In 1980, Ronald Reagan won 43,903,230 votes to Jimmy Carter’s 35,480,115 and John Anderson’s 5,719,850. The landslide by Reagan would have been larger with Anderson out of the race. Of the votes cast for just Reagan and Carter, Reagan got 55.3% and Carter 44.7%.
The 1984 election between Reagan and Mondale was an even bigger blowout landslide in Reagan’s favor.
Now if Donald comes in with Gore-like vote percentages over whoever but he loses the EC (Gore took 266 electoral votes and Bush 271), then we are all going to feel awful and the dems are going to be telling us ‘told ya so’. We won’t be able to do anything about it.
But if Donald comes in with Reagan-like vote percentages over whoever but he loses the EC (Carter took 49 electoral votes and Reagan 489), then we are all going to riot, cause revolution and anarchy.
But because today we have millions of illegals and easily hacked electronic voting machines, hackable by a few corrupted persons over a large region without anyone else knowing, then it’s likely we get our guns loaded.
But I guarantee you the democrats will be touting that everyone needs to follow the rule of law and that a long-term solution is to abolish the EC which will have to be done by Constitutional Amendment.
And they will be very happy to do away with the EC because that means California and New York elect our President, and they would be tickled pink with that result.
So there you have it, the democrats will be nodding their heads that definitely something is very wrong when a nominee wins so much of the popular vote but ends up losing the EC. So therefore, in their minds, we must do away with the EC (which is what they want).
The real long-term solution is to get control of immigration, deport millions of people who are here illegally and who vote, and to build safeguards into our voting system.
But to win this time around without all the above reforms, we will need to challenge wherever, whenever possible every vote and every machine. We may need to get court orders against machines. And when the democrats raise hell for this, we tell them the long-tern solution lies in immigration control and election reforms.
I still say Mr.Trunp and DO NOT DOUBT ME. That means WINNING BOTH. Case is closed.
Somebody HAS to hand out the private keys. There’s no way around it. It’s a simple concept of the Venn diagram:
In in the great Tucson metro area (my home) there’s a bit over a million people (draw yourself a circle)
Most but not all of those people are eligible to register to vote (another circle in the other circle)
Most but not all of that second group are actually registered to vote (third circle in the second)
Someway somehow you have to get private keys to ALL the people in that third group and ONLY people in that third group at 1 key each AND verify they are indeed the droids you’re looking for. That task absolutely positively MUST be done with a database AND somebody handing out the keys. And that’s a system that can be gamed. As we already know with various problems with the voter rolls.
That’s the problem this whole system really boils down to. It’s a massive technical solution that solves NONE of the ways votes are already rigged. You’re solving the non-existent problem and hoping the known problems just evaporate on their own.
It doesn’t, first actually read what I was replying to. His example was data collected at polling places by HAND being fed into the chain. PKI doesn’t mean anything in that example, because the data can already be faked without long before it gets anywhere near PKI or BCT.
Your idea fails for all the reason I outlined in the previous post. His idea fails because the data is already cooked at the polling place. BOTH ideas grossly fail to address how voter fraud already actually happens. It solves none of the known actual problems.
Hand count fraud in dem strongholds like Chicago, Philadelphia, etc. has occurred for decades. But there are witnesses and the witnesses do provide a check on the magnitude of the fraud.
In battleground states, battleground counties down to critical districts, fraud that happens in the machines is invisible, there are no witnesses. What happens in the hand count is witnessed. Therefore, if the hand count and the machines do not agree in the blockchain, that is evidence of fraud or malfunction.
Hand count fraud and the machine totals will with extremely high probability not agree, even if machine fraud is taking place because what happens in the machine is not witnessed or seeable. For the two totals to agree would entail having poll counters deliberately count what they are told in advance but each poll counter is watched and in any event, it would enlarge the conspiracy so much that the fraud would be easily uncovered and would fail.
The situation today is that the machines can be hacked by a few persons without a trace and the machines or their memory cards can be put in critical voting counties where the totals tip the state to one nominee or the other. Thus, the crime is by a few and is not easy to detect. This is a new threat that was not really taken seriously before. Block-Chain Tech eliminates the opportunity for a few to control the outcome.
Now, for those that refuse to believe the crime syndicate headed by Bill Clinton and those behind Obama will not go for this level and detail of fraud in light of all they have to lose, I ask them on what basis do you simply wave your hand and believe the Clintons or whoever won’t do such a thing?
Case is closed for you as one single voter based on a belief. What is needed is not belief but solid assurance for every election and I know the Trump Campaign agrees.
But it’s still fraud that’s happening, and your system can’t do anything about it.
There still won’t be witnesses. Most of the machine fraud happens through “misreading” votes and stuffing on the readers. Nothing you chains can do about that either.
BCT doesn’t eliminate the possibility of machines being hacked. All it does is change WHEN they should be hacked. You want to hack them inbetween when they get on the chain and when they upload their data. And of course the BEST hack is still the one that already exists: “misread” the vote. BCT won’t fix that.
I do not disagree on the position the Trump Campaign states that there is efforts to rig the system. But at the same time, we have to stay away from possible conspiracy theories and work to keep the voting system clean.
AND somebody handing out the keys
No, what happens is you present your physical address and your public key. They hash your physical address to make sure nobody has previously registered it. When they are satisfied with that (and lots of fraud could happen at that step), they then transact one right to vote in the next election onto your public key (called an "address" but has nothing to do with your physical address) in the blockchain.
It’s a massive technical solution that solves NONE of the ways votes are already rigged
Not massive, very simple, elegant and foolproof once you have registered
You’re solving the non-existent problem and hoping the known problems just evaporate on their own.
No and yes. There is a problem on voting day with credentials and blockchain solves that. Yes, there is a known problem with registration and blockchain does not solve it and I am not just hoping it evaporates.
Bad idea, who cares? Certainly not me.
Your idea fails for all the reason I outlined in the previous post.
Learn some PKI fundamentals before you go on about "handing out private keys". I have done PKI for 16+ years. Nobody hands out private keys.
You’re still arguing the blockchain doesn’t catch inconsistencies when in fact it sees all inconsistencies. That’s exactly what it does, it detects inconsistencies at all levels.
Go back and read the link posted to you above and understand first how the blockchain works before making statements that show you don’t understand how it works.
I never said the blockchain would prevent machine hacking, I have repeated ad nauseum that it detects inconsistencies in totals and that it can read the totals at any time.
The machines and hand counts have no idea when the blockchain will read their totals; it could happen after 1 count, 10 counts, 25 counts, etc, and randomly.
The hand counts will not agree with a hacked machine nor will a good machine agree with a hand count because after booting up a machine and completing prelim tests, no one can see what goes on inside a machine except a blockchain. Both the hand count and the machine can have fraud totals but they will not be the same totals. In order for these two counting methods to agree in a fraud context, they must be made to agree but the blockchain will have stored the prior totals, so it’s impossible for inconsistencies to go undetected.
The blockchain is like having a hundred or a thousand eyes watching, and each of its nodes is independent. It is impossible to get the entire blockchain hacked to make a fraud. As soon as there is even one inconsistency in totals, it’s similar to an alarm going off indicating fraud or malfunction.
No I’m not. I’m pointing out that ALL of the inconsistencies we ALREADY KNOW happen in the data happen BEFORE BCT gets involved. BCT CANNOT catch those inconsistencies because they’re already there.
The machines and hand counts DON’T NEED TO KNOW when the block reads the totals, all they need to do is game the total. Doesn’t matter if it’s after 1, 10 or 25 IF those 1, 10 or 25 are ALREADY FRAUDULENT, all blockchain can do at that point is certify fraudulent data. There is no system with a hand count AND machines. And LOTS of people get to see what’s going on in the machines besides the block chain. All the hacker has to do is make the touch screen register every Xth vote for candidate A as for candidate B, all BCT knows is that B got a vote, it doesn’t know how.
Problem is your eyes are TOO LATE. BCT is certifying fraudulent data. It’s hundreds of eyes looking in the wrong place. They’re making sure the data coming from the machine isn’t messed with, but the data is already junk.
It matters to the discussion. I’m discussing apples with him and you’re screaming ORANGES ORANGES, and your oranges aren’t in this discussion.
> “we have to stay away from possible conspiracy theories and work to keep the voting system clean.”
Princeton University has conducted conclusive studies, software programmers have testified before Congress, Australia is implementing Block-Chain Technology, many videos are made by election officials showing how easy it is to hack the machines, and you are calling this a ‘conspiracy theory’?
And the Trump campaign has expressly called on its supporters to take action against the rigged fraud of the system.
And you are saying we should work to keep the system clean, how? By ignoring all the above and calling it all a ‘conspiracy theory’?
You’ve already closed ‘your case’. How is it that you are back calling Block Chain Tech as part of a conspiracy theory? A tech that Australia thinks is so important they are preparing to implement it in their next year’s elections?
I can with high confidence assure you that the Trump Campaign does not think Block Chain Tech is ‘conspiracy theory’.
How are we going to get from voter rolls to a private key? Somebody HAS TO manage that system. There MUST be a one to one relationship between that private key and a valid voter.
But there are 3 voters living at my valid address. So already your public key system has failed because you’re only allowing one of us to get a key. And even then you’ve admitted lots of fraud could happen there. So you’ve admitted your system doesn’t work.
It is massive. It isn’t simple. It ain’t elegant. And you’ve already admitted it isn’t foolproof.
No blockchain does NOT solve that. As you’ve already admitted. If the registration is crap then the blockchain does nothing more than certify fraudulent data.
That's correct. Every private key can only have one public key associated with it (that's how PKI works). Every valid voting public key must be the recipient of a transaction in the blockchain. That means every voter has to submit their public key so it can be allocated one vote. A public key cannot be allocated more than one vote the same way a bitcoin cannot be spent more than once.
But there are 3 voters living at my valid address. So already your public key system has failed because you’re only allowing one of us to get a key.
Nope, physical address plus legal name.
And even then you’ve admitted lots of fraud could happen there. So you’ve admitted your system doesn’t work.
My registration system doesn't work, just like all the others
It is massive. It isn’t simple.
It is simpler than most crypto systems that people trust already
If the registration is crap then the blockchain does nothing more than certify fraudulent data.
Correct.
So you’ve just generating the system I said you had to and you said wasn’t necessary. You now have somebody validating public keys, which means they are handing handing out private keys for the votes. Which means you have a database. Which means they entire process is hackable long before BCT gets involved.
Yup, your registration system, which we all know has been the #1 source of voter fraud in this country since at least 1960, doesn’t work. Which goes right to what I was saying: your system does not solve the KNOWN PROBLEMS.
Most people don’t trust crypto systems. They ignore them.
Well now that you’ve said correct we are in complete agreement. Your system does not solve the known existent problems, therefore all it’s going to do is validate fraudulent data, therefore it’s completely pointless.
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