‘You Don’t Have to Wear a Military Uniform to Serve Your Country’ [Mandatory National Service]

The Atlantic ^ | July 20, 2016 | Stanley A. McChrystal

[C19fan]

In 1838, a 28-year-old Abraham Lincoln declared that the greatest threat facing America comes not from a foreign invader:

If it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us; it cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time, or die by suicide.

[trebb]

Only a third? Consider yourself lucky

Much as taxes suck, I wouldn't mind making enough to have to pay a third....then get it fixed.....

[Myrddin]

Slavery was outlawed by the 13th amendment and re-instituted with the 16th amendment. I lose nearly 60% of my earned income to taxation. Now this a-hole wants to increase the burden with a new form of slavery layered on top of the involuntary support of the socialist welfare society. GTFO

[L,TOWM]

Would not be involuntary — a person can choose not to participate, and that means no voting, no govvie job, no public assistance, and no running for office later.

Change your mind when you’re 40? Cool. Go plant trees for a couple of years in one of your State forests.

[NorthMountain]

Service may be at the heart of the answer. A year of service has the power to bring young people together

Where in Article 1 is the Congress authorized to create such a program? Where in Article 2 is the President authorized to oversee such a program?

It's not there, of course, so pound sand. General.

[NorthMountain]

No thanks. It was a bad idea when Robert Heinlein proposed it, and it’s still a bad idea today. We simply have no legitimate need for the vast horde of make-work “government servants” that you and Robert want to create. Your proposal also inverts the relationship between We the People and our government. It serves us. We do not serve it.

[L,TOWM]

Yeah, because giving the franchise to any moron that turns 18 and has a pulse has sure worked well everywhere its been implemented, right?

Frankly, I no longer want to be ruled over by people too dammed selfish to take some time out of their snowflake lives to serve others or have people that are so f-—ed up they can’t mesh with a team, voting in the next group of our betters to run our lives.

[NorthMountain]

Yeah, because giving the franchise to any moron that turns 18 and has a pulse has sure worked well everywhere its been implemented, right?

Thank you for burning a strawman. You know that you did that, right? You know that your comment is stupid and reflects poorly on you, right? I hope you're smart enough to know that, but it's far from certain.

Frankly, I no longer want to be ruled over by people too dammed selfish

Frankly, I no longer want to be ruled over by obsessive busybodies who want to tell how to live my life and whether or not I'm "giving back" enough to the "community". To Hell with them, and to Hell with their mandatory "service" requirements.

Now, do you care to address the simple facts: We simply have no legitimate need for the vast horde of make-work “government servants” that you and Robert want to create. Your proposal also inverts the relationship between We the People and our government. It serves us. We do not serve it.

[kearnyirish2]

You’re right; at this point I’ve been “serving” fast-food to multiple generations who’ve never lifted a finger for anyone - the concept of “nation” is beyond them.

[kearnyirish2]

In this day and age the idea of military conscription for anything but an invasion of the United States is laughable.

The troops we squandered in the half-hearted War Against Islam would have been better served protecting our borders.

[kearnyirish2]

That is because the ‘rats intend to make the government the sole employer in this country (in the same manner as the sole health insurance provider).

[L,TOWM]

It serves us. We do not serve it.

Recent empirical evidence suggests that this statement is false. As a normative statement, yes that how was it was designed. The United States is no longer operating according to design specifications my FRiend.

If you look at what the founders suggested in the debate that took place in the late 1780's, I think they would be appalled at the universe franchise. One man, one vote eventually gets us what we have today throughout western society -- the only permissible debate is how much of our stuff we have to surrender to a preferred political class.

You OK with millions of people voting for your rulers with no stake in the system beyond "gimme"?

[rlmorel]

No, No, No, and...No.

General McChrystal is correct that you don’t have to wear a uniform to serve your country, but if he is proposing a mandatory “Year of Service” I shout “NO! NO! NO!” at the top of my lungs UNLESS he advocates them serving with no pay for a year.

Especially when you read the article and you see...”City Year, Teach for America, YouthBuild, Green City Force, Earth Conservation Corps, and other AmeriCorps programs...” absolutely not.

Green City Force? Earth Conservation Corps?

More government employees, which is the goal of all leftists, because government knows best how to spend money it takes at the point of a gun.

[NorthMountain]

Recent empirical evidence suggests that this statement is false. As a normative statement, yes that how was it was designed. The United States is no longer operating according to design specifications

Yes. That's correct. And we must return it to proper operating conditions. Creating a vast horde of make-work "servants" is a further step in the wrong direction.

You OK with millions of people voting for your rulers with no stake in the system beyond "gimme"?

Ahhh, now we're gettin' somewhere. See, you posed it as a question. That, we can work with.

If you look at what the founders suggested in the debate that took place in the late 1780's, I think they would be appalled at the universe franchise.

Quite so. The franchise was limited to property owners. People could vote who materially contributed to the operation of the government, and had a tangible stake in the outcome being successful. It had nothing to do with vague notions of 'service' or 'selfishness'. It had everything to do with standing to lose if the government got out of control, and with being the people who funded the government in the first place.

As you correctly observe, we now have extended the franchise to people who stand to gain if the government gets out of control. IMO, the franchise should be strictly limited to those who pay for the government's operating expenses.

[Bull Snipe]

In the case of voting, this type of restriction is as equally unconstitutional as involuntary servitude is unconstitutional. Likewise there is no constitutional requirement to have been a former federal employee to run for President, Vice President, or Representative. You would again have to amend the Constitution.

[L,TOWM]

Creating a vast horde of make-work "servants" is a further step in the wrong direction.

Not quite what I had in mind... Instead of tossing around straw man accusations, let me clarify.
Obviously, the military would be an option. So would the kid doing their Mormon mission. So would the person signing up for the peace corps or the young lady doing childcare for minimum wage at an inner city daycare so that mom could work instead of drawing AFDC. For the outdoor types, there are many land management projects that go on all the time and it seems to me that a lot of inner city youts could do with some time outdoors digging drainage ditches. Maybe dealing with the bedpans at a hospice. The military gets paid and so would these folks (unless they are doing some form of religious obligation).

Your economic component also has merit -- why not both?

I suppose I got corrupted by former church -- the pastor there would tell of the bright eyed kid coming into his office and tell him he is "called" to ministry. The pastor would smile, hand him a mop and bucket and direct him to the church toilets. The story would end with a simple statement "If he couldn't handle a couple of years of cleaning toilets, he could not be trusted with shepherding a congregation of people that need high character leadership".

That's pretty much where I'm coming from.

[L,TOWM]

You think small. I’m hoping for an Article V deal where it can be re-written.

[Bull Snipe]

But I do think. And I think that one should not have to have been an employee of the Federal Government to vote, or to hold elected office like you have proposed. Fortunately, the Constitution of the United States, as it is now written, agrees with my line of thinking. Be careful what you wish for.

[L,TOWM]

Didn’t read the entire discussion I had with others on this idea did you?

:-) That’s OK.

While you’re thinking, ponder upon everything we look at politically in this nation, much of it we despise as conservatives. It has all happened under the constitution we say we love so much. And much of it cannot be undone under that same constitution.

[piasa]

Conscription only in the event of US territory being attacked.

If they can’t gin up enough support for a foreign war to win it without a draft and enough will politically to drop the PC and assinine ROE, then maybe they shouldn’t embark on it in the first place.

[piasa]

If your state doesn’t demand your service then the feds have no business demanding it either. If your state does demand it then the feds have no need of it.