Posted on 06/27/2016 5:21:31 PM PDT by marktwain
Early response outside of Pulse from Cell Phone Video
Details are emerging about the Orlando Pulse Massacre. It is clear that some of the first impressions were false.
First, there was not any initial exchange of fire inside of the club. Officers did not fire at the murderer in the club, or he at them, until the last few minutes, three hours later, when SWAT officers broke into the bathrooms through a wall.
There was an initial exchange of gunfire, but it was outside of the club. The off duty police officer/security officer quickly disengaged as the murderer entered the club while firing. It is precisely the scenario that John Lott has often predicted. If a security officer is known, a person planning a mass killing will determine a way to take them out with a surprise attack, find a way to bypass them, or avoid them.
Second, there was some time from the initial shooting until police mounted an armed response. The police response was very quick. Additional officers arrived at the scene, formed up, broke out a large window, and went in. But it still took time. It appears about six minutes passed from the initial shots until the police entered the Pulse club. During that period, the murderer was shooting and killing people inside the club. The shooting continued as the police entered.
Link to video from cell phone outside of the club, early in the shooting
Once in the club, the officers could not locate the murderer. They were uncertain how many there might be. They continued to hear shots, and determined that the shooter was in the bathroom area. They did not shoot at the murderer. It does not appear that he fired
(Excerpt) Read more at ammoland.com ...
Well that may benot what happened. Total law enforcement failure. Sickening cowardice . I could have done this with 3 guys , two flash bangs and a police car through the door and a glock 17. What pathetic cowardice. Those people died because of WEAKNESS!!
Well the cops all made it safely home and that is all that matters.(sarc) I attended a seminar on what to do during an active shooting event and the instructor’ a cop, told us that since Columbine the first officers on the scene were to take an immediate and active approach to stop the shooters, and SWAT would no longer wait around to ASSES the situation for hours before entry. I guess the cops in Florida haven’t gotten the word yet.
That headline at the freedom outpost is very misleading. There is nothing in the transcript to indicate that no one died until SWAT entered.
They do say, however, that no more shots were fired after the officers were told to stop and wait for SWAT.
“wait” ??? What crap. There were over 300 in that gay bar!! 300!! Wait? Were they waiting for a sign? “ SHOTS FIRES” . You get paid to kill people. GO DO IT!! Gawd ,what a bunch on sniveling cowards .
Correction: No more shots were fired after the officers were told to wait for SWAT - until the SWAT team entry.
There was clearly enough time for the shooter to kill 49 and wound 53 from the time the event started until the officers heard the last shot inside, perhaps 15 to 20 minutes later.
While they did wait for the SWAT team which did take forever for them to finally confront the killer.
It is an example of how waiting for SWAT teams and the delay gets people killed and lets injured people die......
BUT... this is a case where “When seconds count, the police are SIX minutes away”. Many people were already wounded and dead. We’ll have to wait for the real minute by minute timeline to know how bad it was.
Six minutes is an eternity. Time it yourself. Pretend you are at a club/bar/restaurant and you hear and/or see a gunman firing. Start your clock. While the time S L O W L Y drags by, imagine more and more people being shot. Imagine the shooter going back around and finishing off the wounded.
On my clock it has been a little over one minute. You still have FIVE more minutes to imagine MORE carnage.
In a “target rich environment” like this was, one shot per second would be easy to accomplish. Sixty seconds...SIXTY dead and wounded would be possible.
So no wonder that SIX minutes is an ETERNITY...literally.
I am not blaming the police here, the first responders. They did the best they could.
It is just a fallacy that the police can protect you. THEY CAN’T.
It may not have been as necessary to be armed in times past, but in today’s world, you better be.
The OPD blew it. The most important lesson from Columbine is the first cops must get in and engage the shooter(s). Otherwise people die while they are forming up, deciding what to do, milling around, basically doing nothing to save lives. I have said all along that when the bad guy has time to kill everyone, call 911, get on facebook and whatever else he wanted to do before he came out and was shot, someone screwed this up and cost many lives.
I blame the police leadership. They did not learn the lessons of previous mass shootings where even the first cop on the scene has to enter, sometimes called a suicide entrance. They blew it and many people died.
“Six minutes is an eternity. Time it yourself. Pretend you are at a club/bar/restaurant and you hear and/or see a gunman firing. Start your clock. While the time S L O W L Y drags by, imagine more and more people being shot. Imagine the shooter going back around and finishing off the wounded.
On my clock it has been a little over one minute. You still have FIVE more minutes to imagine MORE carnage.”
You are exactly correct. It was six minutes until the group of six or seven officers entered the club.
No one is talking about the off duty/armed security officer who was supposed to be guarding the club. What was he getting paid for?
They say he “exchanged shots” with the killer. Hmmm. he was not hit,and it does not seem that he hit the killer. He ended up outside, the killer inside. He could here shots going on. He waited or ran or whatever. We have not been told what he did, except he did not go in and engage the shooter after the initial shots were fired.
We do not know if he even got off one shot for certain.
I have not heard of any officers wounded, except for the one SWAT guy whose helmet saved him.
I wonder if we will ever know just what the club “armed security” being paid at police overtime wages to ensure that everyone inside was disarmed, actually did or did not do.
This is mostly a placemarker showing how some cops can be slow, even if within sight of a physical attack.
This is the Sacramento violence from June 26, 2016:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou_XUHgnNNI&feature=youtu.be&t=190
Yes that bothers me too
ping
I dont buy the helmet story either
I am curious. What about the helmet account makes you dubious?
They were told that if they do anything he had explosives in a vehicle he can detonate. I believe the initial officers drove the guy into the bathroom and that enabled people to escape out of the exits in the main part of the bldg..
http://nypost.com/2016/06/16/orlando-shooter-threatened-to-set-off-explosives-during-rampage/
Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer said Wednesday that police decided to break down a wall at the Pulse nightclub at around 5 a.m. because Mateen was threatening to detonate explosives.
“The gunman who went on a rampage at a gay nightclub early Sunday told the police he would strap explosives to four hostages and strategically place them in the corners of the building,” Dyer said.
Dyer also said hostages trapped in the club were sending text messages and making phone calls about the possibility that bombs were about to go off.
“We had independent verification of that,” Dyer said. “We had a lot of information from the inside and they independently were saying yes, the bomber is about to put on an explosive vest.”
who ever came up with the policy to wait for swat should be fired....one of the cops on the scene should of gone and assessed the situation. I am guessing that there swat team is not a rapid deployment team and if a cop had gone in to the building he would of seen that it was only one shooter and taken that shooter out possibly halving the casualties.
“I believe the initial officers drove the guy into the bathroom and that enabled people to escape out of the exits in the main part of the bldg..”
I recall reading that. But the only report from an officer who was one of those who went in initially, does not say that. He says they heard shots, and tried to figure out where the shooter was. He does not recall anyone shooting at the shooter or the shooter shooting at them.
They figured out he was in the bathroom area, and the shooting stopped.
That is when they called HQ and HQ told them to wait for SWAT.
THe shooter had a minimum of six, perhaps as much as 15 minutes before he stopped shooting, and it wasn’t officers who stopped him.
The hospital was very close to the club, so the wounded they were able to get out quickly had a good chance for survival. The people he first shot at close range most likely died right away. The victims they could not get to right away probably bled out. A few of the victims may have been hit by friendly fire. I’m not sure how many the shooter trapped in the bathroom. They probably didn’t have much of a chance of making it out alive.
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