German Army leaves NATO exercises early because of overtime rules

americanthinker.com | 5/4/2016 | Thomas Lifson

[rktman]

LOL! Odd. I seem to recall being “on duty” 24/7/365. No OT pay for me either. Suppose we could get back pay?

[katana]

I only reported the opinion of someone who was there. And the way he answered told me he had no doubts. Read up on the history of the N. Africa, Sicily, and Italian campaigns and you’ll find that the Germans were tough and very expensive to push back. Same in Russia and the first month after the Normandy landings. And since the Civil War firepower has been the calling card of the American army. So to me what he said rang true. Main point is those Germans and their grandsons are very different creatures. The warrior spirit has been bred right out of the society, which on the whole and considering we’re talking about the Germans, isn’t an entirely bad thing.

[Pollster1]

I worked a lot of three-section duty, 6 on, 12 off, with drills and regular work during the 12 hours “off”. I occasionally had port-and-starboard, with drills and work during the 6 hours off. Then there were real situations. There is nothing like an extended encounter with a Soviet battle group to rack up lots of overtime - at the going rate of $0 per hour.

[DesertRhino]

Germans also had mass surrenders. Staggering numbers in north Africa and Russia surrendered. That’s a fact. And sitting in defense is a much nicer position.
When they met American defenses they were quickly fought to a halt. When they met French and Russian defenses they were quickly fought to a halt.
They were hell on unarmed Ukrainian women, but in the attack they were simply no match for the American or Russian army.

There was a lot of propaganda out of that war and one of the biggest ones was the lost cause story of the valiant and heroic German soldier who could only be defeated by a human wave or Russians or a tidal wave of American equipment. The truth is, in any measure they came up short and do not compare to the US Army or Red Army of 1944-45.

Much of the hype about them was from the 39-41 era rolling quickly over utterly unprepared enemies in surprise invasions. But they never had power projection and suffered from backwards thinking and tactics.

http://www.amazon.com/WHY-GERMANS-LOSE-WAR-Superiority/dp/1853673838

[DesertRhino]

“Read up on the history of the N. Africa, Sicily, and Italian campaigns and you’ll find that the Germans were tough and very expensive to push back.”

As were the French in WWI and II, as were the Japanese, as were the Russians, as were the Spanish in Cuba, as were the Ethiopians facing Italy, as were the Union at Gettysburg and the Confederates later. And you might want to look at a place called Bastogne where lightly armed US infantry and paratroopers stopped an SS and Panzer attack cold.
Look at a handful of Marines on Wake island.

Those were all defensive campaigns. The German pattern is sneak attack on an unprepared country, or fighting in defense. Defense is easy to cost the attacker dearly. You hide, and shoot from prepared positions. The attacker must be more exposed to attack you. The attack is the measure of a military and soldier. And they have always fallen short there.
The American soldier is the pinnacle. He just isn’t exotic.

[katana]

Today's volunteer recruited built like an NFL linebacker American soldier? Yes. Unless you're going to start comparing them with the Gurkhas or special forces the best standing army troops on the planet today. U.S. Marines, always self selected and well trained in the arts of killing? I agree. But it took awhile for the citizen soldiers of World War II to match up man for man against the Wehrmacht. The first book in Rick Atkinson's great trilogy about WWII, "An Army at Dawn", highlighted how American troops gradually and through bitter experience learned how to fight the Germans and win.

But man for man by all accounts the German soldier was extremely well trained, disciplined, and effective and the deciding factor in battle was usually overwhelming American firepower and logistics. This doesn't discount American heroism at Bastogne (elite paratroops of the 101st Airborne, by the way) or anywhere. Or the times good troops were slaughtered because of bad leadership (Kasserine and the Hürtgen Forest). On the Russian front it was sheer numbers and firepower (Katyusha rockets, T34's, and human waves more afraid of the NKVD than the Germans). I'm just giving respect to the German foot soldier who served in a deeply evil cause, and thankfully was beaten so thoroughly he still hasn't raised his head up to where he once held it.

[katana]

One short and final note. You can argue with me about this but I just mentioned what an old man who was there observed when I asked him about it. I can also tell you about a Belgian who visited my office in Brussels who had served as an interpreter (French/Dutch/German/English ... typical Belge) for the Americans. He told me what his Major did when they pulled their jeep into a concentration camp and he was instructed to ask “Wer is der Commandant?!”. Let’s just say not everything that happens in war gets into the history books. :)