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To: LexBaird

“What warrant do you believe is being issued to Apple, and what “persons, houses, papers, and effects” belonging to Apple do the Govt. have probable cause to seize and examine? Are you suggesting Apple is a conspirator?”

No one is suggesting APPL is a conspirator. They are impeding the investigation and are doing it provocatively. Because it is their proprietary software blocking the investigation into the ISIS killers, they are, in effect, protecting them. They could have opened this thing.

I mention the 4th amendment because this will be used by an activist court at some point to contend that people do not have to comply with the part of the 4th amendment that the APPL bots ALWAYS leave out in this discussion, as you did above: “...and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

The court has done just that. They have isolated the part of the program that has yet to be challenged, which could lead to a dangerous precedent, “the dog ate my homework.”

Don’t take a high tone with me. I know what I am talking about. As do you, I suspect. So far APPL has disseminated so much crap about all of this it’s pathetic. They could have done this easily, but didn’t. Do you wonder why? Could there POSSIBLY be a better time to try to establish a precedent that could leave a hole in the 4th amendment, when it is NOT a case of national security, but, say, the eviction of widow and orphans? Corporate espionage? Any of the thousand os reasons daily that people who have either committed or been on the recieving end of some sort of foul play?

Let’s not pretend this is just nothing. And without Justice Scalia, I couldn’t think of a better time to try to get that old Camels nose under the tent. Could you? If it goes to the Supremes, and they split (which is somewhat more likely now) it will bounce back to the ninth in CA. Which way do you think they will go?

So please, as Tom Cotton (R., Ark.), a member of the Senate intelligence Committee who shares Mr. Trump’s opinion and thinks it’s going to take action from Congress to deal with the impasse. Said Mr. Cotton:

Apple chose to protect a dead ISIS terrorist’s p‎rivacy over the security of the American people. The Executive and Legislative Branches have been working with the private sector with the hope of resolving the ‘Going Dark’ problem, the position Tim Cook and Apple have taken shows that they are unwilling to compromise and that legislation is likely the only way to resolve this issue. The problem of end-to-end encryption isn’t just a terrorism issue. It is also a drug-trafficking, kidnapping, and child pornography issue that impacts every state of the Union.

All the “good people of the left” and APPL investors are on this like a dog on a bone. This will ultimately be an attempt to make the big dogs like APPL and GOOG our “protectors” from the government and not the other way around, as it should be.

Does that answer your question as to why the 4th amendment is important?


277 posted on 02/22/2016 12:38:11 PM PST by jessduntno (Steady, Reliable, and (for now) Republican - Donald Trump, (D, R, I, D, R, I, R - NY) /s)
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To: jessduntno

I strongly disagree. Apple chose EXACTLY to protect the security of the American people (including mine), and all other owners of these devices, from an intrusive govt. here, even more intrusive and brutal govts. abroad, and every other 3rd world hacker whom should get access to a specially made hacker tool. You cannot unring a bell, nor uninvent such a tool and technique.

The maker of a safe is not beholden for the actions of the safe owner, nor to the govt. to do their job for them beyond reasonable expectation. Apple has already provided all currently available assistance to the FBI. That is reasonable; creating new OS’s that compromise their security for them is not.

This vague and open-ended writ goes beyond that. They are not asking Apple to open the phone; they are demanding that the locks be changed so they can break in easier. But, if the locks on your safe can be changed at will to an inferior one, that renders your safe useless for any further security beyond casual visitors. Any thief could break in at will.

The purpose of the 4th Amendment is to protect against govt. intrusion. It is not a magic key for the govt. to compel people and business to do their will. It’s supposed to be hard for them to get warrants, and the burden of proof for probable cause and compelling interest is on them. A writ like this is a carte-blanche for fishing expeditions against anyone whose encrypted phone the FBI wants to open, because you can’t make a custom key for this. You can only make a general purpose crowbar. One cannot be secure in ones papers, property, person or effects when such tools are in use.

To top it all off, criminals and terrorists already have encryption tools that render this tool useless on any iPhone they install it on. Anybody that the contact list on that phone might have led to 4 months ago are long gone or too stupid to get away from the usual police work (such as sweating the co-conspirator and parents). But, having that tool out there sure will leave casual users vulnerable. Hope you don’t have any bachelor party pics on there....

Imagine the uproar on FR if this was the govt. demanding that, since the terrorists drove a SUV in a car chase, that Ford must provide the FBI with the means to remotely disable all cars it makes. Or demanding Remington to engineer a remote method to disable guns because, after the fact, some terrorist was found to have used a Remington product.


280 posted on 02/22/2016 1:22:10 PM PST by LexBaird (Tyrannosaurus Lex, unapologetic carnivore)
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