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Phoenix council subs opening prayer for moment of silence
Associated Press ^ | Feb. 3, 2016 11:27 PM EST | Paul Davenport and Felicia Fonseca

Posted on 02/03/2016 9:08:48 PM PST by Olog-hai

The Phoenix City Council voted Wednesday to replace a longstanding tradition of prayer before meetings with a moment of silence prayer, preventing an address by a group with "Satan" in its name and averting a lawsuit over constitutional rights.

The moment of silence prayer was offered as an alternate motion to a measure that would have allowed the mayor and councilors to take turns in selecting who gives the invocation. That measure would not have blocked The Satanic Temple's prayer scheduled for Feb. 17, city attorney Brad Holm said.

More than 50 people, including religious leaders, gave emotional testimony, invoking scripture, the U.S. Constitution and their own deity to sway the decision. Many warned against the dark forces of evil, while others urged the council to be inclusive of minority views. ...

(Excerpt) Read more at bigstory.ap.org ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; US: Arizona
KEYWORDS: momentofsilence; openingprayer; phoenix; satanictemple

1 posted on 02/03/2016 9:08:48 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai
That measure would not have blocked The Satanic Temple's prayer scheduled for Feb. 17, city attorney Brad Holm said.

Uh-huh. But throwing them the h*ll out would work just fine. It's not a Federal matter, so screw 'em.

2 posted on 02/03/2016 9:15:53 PM PST by SamuraiScot
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To: SamuraiScot

Except the First Amendment has been incorporated to the states. A state can’t establish religion, restrict free speech, etc.


3 posted on 02/03/2016 9:29:57 PM PST by Alter Kaker (Gravitation is a theory, not a fact. It should be approached with an open mind...)
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To: Alter Kaker

But they sure have power when it comes to the 2nd Amendment.


4 posted on 02/03/2016 9:43:20 PM PST by DoughtyOne (the Free Republic Caucus: what FReepers are thinking, 100s or 1000s of them. It's up to you.)
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To: Olog-hai

The Satanists should be mocked. They pray to a created being who has to get permission from God, the Creator, to do anything. Satan MUST bow down and worship Jesus Christ because God commanded him to.


5 posted on 02/03/2016 11:14:12 PM PST by unlearner (RIP America, 7/4/1776 - 6/26/2015, "Only God can judge us now." - Claus Von Stauffenberg / Valkyrie)
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To: unlearner

Read The Book to the end...Satan will never bow down to his Creator and will get thrown into the lake of fire, a place prepared for the devil and his own.
Rev. 20:10


6 posted on 02/03/2016 11:47:21 PM PST by TurkeyLurkey
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To: Alter Kaker
Except the First Amendment has been incorporated to the states. A state can’t establish religion

I would say it has erroneously been broadened into limiting individuals who happen to work for the public or use public facilities. The First Amendment is a specific limit upon the Federal Government, not the people. The specific limit entails a limit upon Congress, not the Executive or Judiciary -specifically, Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

7 posted on 02/04/2016 12:14:50 AM PST by DBeers (�)
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To: Alter Kaker
Except the First Amendment has been incorporated to the states.

Who incorporated it? The US Supreme Court--on its own, and with no Constitutional authority to do so. Others have answered this. I just wanted to add that the idea of "incorporation" is just the name put on a unilateral creep in authority claimed by Left-wing ideologues on the US Supreme Court during the 20th century. There's no foundation for it. The USSC has seized authority over individual Americans from the States.

The USC is designed so that if you don't like a State's laws, you can move to another. This is designed to keep the States honest and free.

What Leftists have claimed that the USSC's power-grab is based (somehow) on the 14th Amendment--which is explicitly about slavery and nothing else. The Court's claim that a State can't endorse a religious denomination is nonsense. It's Congress that can't do that.

The function of the Amendments is to emphasize certain limits--which already exist in the structure of the main document--on what Congress is allowed to do under the USC. The fact that the 20th-century Supreme Court turned this idea on its head just means we need to turn the Court on its head. This is the core issue in taking back our country. One thing I have liked about Ted Cruz is that he gets this. It may start with impeaching justices wholesale from the entire Federal bench. Whatever it takes!

8 posted on 02/04/2016 7:27:50 AM PST by SamuraiScot
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To: DoughtyOne

In McDonald v Chicago the Court held that the Second Amendment DOES apply to states and local governments. If you reject incorporation doctrine you have to allow California, New York and Illinois the power to ban guns.


9 posted on 02/04/2016 8:08:48 AM PST by Alter Kaker (Gravitation is a theory, not a fact. It should be approached with an open mind...)
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To: Alter Kaker

That terminology is somewhat foreign to me.

In simple terms, fundamental rights should not be able to be overturned.


10 posted on 02/04/2016 9:34:27 AM PST by DoughtyOne (the Free Republic Caucus: what FReepers are thinking, 100s or 1000s of them. It's up to you.)
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To: TurkeyLurkey

“Satan will never bow down to his Creator “

Oh yes he will.

Consider the temptation of Christ in the wilderness:

Matthew 4:5-10
Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:
‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’
and,
‘In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’”
Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’”
Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”
Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”

Here Satan, an angel, attempts to get Christ, who is God, to bow to him and worship him. Satan first (in the quoted portion) asks for Christ to essentially trust him, as an angel, to do what God said angels would do for Him. Angels will be in charge of His safety. Satan, an angel, tells Christ to jump, implying that if God’s words are true then He can count on Satan to catch Him. (Satan never identifies himself as Satan.)

Jesus replied that no one should tempt God. This has two meanings. One, Christ would not put His heavenly Father to the test. But two, Satan is commanded NOT to tempt Christ, who is God.

Satan also tried to get Jesus to bow to him. Jesus answered that it is commanded to worship God only. This also has two meanings. One, Christ will not worship or bow to the Devil but only to His heavenly Father. But two, Satan is COMMANDED to bow to Jesus, who is the Creator and Almighty God.

When Jesus said these words to Satan, He could have easily and truthfully gestured by first pointing to Satan and then to Himself, as the designated worshiper and Person to be worshipped respectively.

Here are other passages which show that not only is Satan commanded to bow to Jesus, but he must, and he will.

Hebrews 1:6
But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:
“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”

Notice the word “all”. Not only are holy angels obligated, so are the fallen ones.

Philippians 2:10
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth...

Romans 14:11
For it is written:
“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”

It may infuriate Satan to know his fate, but before he is cast into the lake of fire, he will first bow down to his Creator.


11 posted on 02/04/2016 9:09:45 PM PST by unlearner (RIP America, 7/4/1776 - 6/26/2015, "Only God can judge us now." - Claus Von Stauffenberg / Valkyrie)
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To: unlearner

I just thank the Lord for your corrective response to my hurried and rather flippant comment that Satan will never bow down to his Creator. Had I taken the time to think it through carefully, I would not have said such a thing; I was focusing on his end, being thrown into the lake of fire and neglecting what Scriptue clearly says will happen before he is thrown into the lake of fire.

The devil and “his” angels, not the angels of God, will be thrown down to the earth from heaven to persecute “the woman” (Israel) during that terrible time called “the great tribulation,” the last 3 1/2 years of Daniel’s 70th week (Revelation 12:9, 13-17)

I would probably not use Matthew 4:5-10 as a proof text for the devil’s bowing to his Creator, though I agree that the implication is there that he is to do so.

But Philippians 2:10 definitely.

And Hebrews 1:6 could refer to the angels who are not fallen, yet we see in Mark 3:11 that even the demons (fallen angels) fell down before Jesus when they saw him and called him the Son of God.

Romans 14:11 is in the context of human beings’ standing before the judgment seat of God to give an account.

Another great passage: 1 Corinthians 15:23-26, in the context of the resurrection (my brackets):

23 But each in his own order; Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, [1st & 2nd coming],
24 then comes the end, when He delivers up the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power [at the end of the Millennium].
25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. [the purpose of the Millennium]
26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death.

I love God’s Word and love to study it, as I think you also do.

The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you.


12 posted on 02/05/2016 8:25:20 AM PST by TurkeyLurkey
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To: TurkeyLurkey

Thank you for your feedback and words of encouragement.

I do not intend to be argumentative, but I will suggest something for your consideration.

You are correct that Satan and his angels will be cast down to the earth for the second half of Daniel’s seventieth week. However, I think it can be demonstrated that the “Great Tribulation” only begins at this point in time and does not last for the full three and a half years that remain.

The Great Tribulation is a period of suffering that affects the entire world. It will begin in the middle of Daniel’s seventieth week, which on earth is marked by the abomination of desolation in which the anti-Christ defiles the temple and proclaims himself to be God. However, this period of Great Tribulation is directed at the “saints”, i.e. the elect, and for their sake, this time will be “cut short”.

I believe if you carefully study the timeline in scripture, you will find that the Great Tribulation is immediately followed by the time period called the “Day of the Lord” which continues to the end of Daniel’s seventieth week. This period is also referred to as the “Day of Christ”, the “Day of Wrath”, the “Day of God”, or more generically as the “End”.

So when you read Matthew 24 or Daniel or Revelations, consider how these terms fit into the scheme of the final seven years of mankind before the millennial kingdom begins.

It is my belief that Christians will remain on the earth through the trials of Daniel’s seventieth week, through the “Great Tribulation” and be taken out of the earth immediately prior to the “Day of Wrath”. I believe this position is supported by all of the passages related to Christ’s return.


13 posted on 02/05/2016 11:54:36 AM PST by unlearner (RIP America, 7/4/1776 - 6/26/2015, "Only God can judge us now." - Claus Von Stauffenberg / Valkyrie)
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