Posted on 01/30/2016 12:33:54 AM PST by EternalVigilance
One explanation of how the shooting of LaVoy Finicum unfolded. Worthy of consideration, IMO.
That Lavoy clearly had his hands UP is not conjecture.
Without “sound” though to corroborate the video, the FBI is going to forevermore “conjecture” he was going for a gun. Lavoy supporters are going to “conjecture” he was making a natural and uncontrollable response to getting shot.
It appears to me that the FBI has learned some lessons as it is my understanding that the officers involved in actually killing Lavoy were all State.
My personal OPINION is that Lavoy was trying to surrender and they were just not going to allow that to happen.
Me too. It brought tears to my eyes.
“One would have to think that Lon Horiuchi likely retired years ago.”
As in Bladerunner “Retirement”?
Do we know the name of the ‘hero’ that shot LaVoy yet? I should think this man’s heroism and face would be splashed all over the papers. Who is he? Let us see his face.
He tried to go around the road block while fleeing the first stop where he sat for 4 minutes. The only braking effort he made was to give him self a second to decide which way to go.
He was trying to avoid colliding with the vehicles in the road. Mr. Finicum’s brake lights come on as he comes around the curve and sees the roadblock. They stay on “all the way in”. There was not enough distance to stop, esp. if he (Finicum) had a moment of indecision as he rounded the bend.
Negative on the laying on the ground. Finicum would be at least a foot “in” the snow. If I intended to shoot, that’s exactly what I would do. Dive or fake-fall into the snow so that the LEO’s can’t see what I’m doing with my hand, and come up shooting.
Also, as has been discussed on other FR threads, FWIW, if you carefully watch the guy on the left (woods), Finicum appears to have kept his hands up until he was tased. When the 1st bullet hit Finicum is anybody’s guess: There are slight gun motions that MIGHT be recoil before Finicum’s hands drop. The video seems inconclusive to me. Maybe some expert can analyze it further.
OTOH, speculation here: Let’s say Finicum reduced his speed from 60 mph to 30 mph before he hit the snow. We can see the PU got slightly over 1/2 way past the road block. Also, as has been commented many places, no road spikes were used.
Now consider the likely result if Finicum had gunned it. Stopping distance roughly squares with speed, and I believe that in the first order, and somewhat depending on it’s compaction, etc., the snow would act as a linear braking force. (There would be some “piling up” of snow in front of the PU, etc., but there’d also be some additional forward energy if Finicum had good tires (likely) and kept his foot on the gas pedal.)
My best guess is that in this scenario, IF (big if!) Finicum can keep control of the vehicle, he successfully runs the roadblock. There’s also a VERY good chance he kills the idiot who ran out in front of him.
The best case I can make in favor of the LEO’s is that in everything except for marksmanship, the officer training here is abysmal. Next best is “shoot first, ask questions later” (still with many LEO mistakes made.) Worst case is that the LEO’s were looking for any reason they could find or manufacture, to use deadly force. If that is true, they were pretty efficient.
The whole thing just makes me sick. It did not need to happen this way.
Oh, bunk. Finicum had his brakes on “all the way in”. See my prev. post regarding running the roadblock. And take a physics class.
no road spikes were used.
These days the road spikes are slow leak causers so the spikee does not have a catastrophic blowout.
And even if not, how far before the roadblock should they have been placed for proper effect?
murder, murder, murder clearly hands up until he got shot
they may have thot this was amon bundy and were ordered to take him out. just a guess. murdered by the fibs and you say waco i say philly move house as well. helicopter drops bomb on the roof. police at the time had no helicopters.
LaVoy did a good job of setting up a circular-firing squad scenario. The first shooter could have easily missed LaVoy and shot the agent in the tree line who cowardly delivered the final shot. That may be why the first shooter ran for cover behind the car, after taking the first shot. The cowardly tree-line shooter than moved right to remove the straight-line angle to the first shooter.
The entire group was on their way to a “discussion’ for a peaceful resolution & they all had been PROMISED SAFE PASSAGE.
Another example of how this administration treats citizens.
WHY was there any roadblock? They had been promised SAFE PASSAGE to a meeting.
Lon Horiuchi. Doubt it. He's well past his sell-by date by now. Waco was in 1993, 23 years ago now.
Its called “we are the govt we lied”.
Maybe you should have given Mr. Finicum and his friends the physics lessons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjl1hefqqWI
fbi edited version
what is it with the unmarked black vans. these are not police. green coats. the guy that shot him i think is not the guy he ran over. but behind him there are two guys poised behind the vans. it looks like the guy that got run over is just trying to get ot of the way. still it looks like murder nothing to see move along.
IIRC, he was left handed. Reaching to his left side with his right hand would not have produced a weapon.
Unless the shooter was off camera.
Without “sound†though to corroborate the video, the FBI is going to forevermore “conjecture†he was going for a gun. Lavoy supporters are going to “conjecture†he was making a natural and uncontrollable response to getting shot.
The majority of people who are right handed might think he was reaching for a gun, but those who know he was left handed would think that he responded to being shot.
People need to be informed that he was left handed.
My personal OPINION is that Lavoy was trying to surrender and they were just not going to allow that to happen.
I agree.
The waistband baloney gets blown with this video. The Oregon shooters are liars too besides being murderers.
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