Posted on 01/24/2016 12:01:54 PM PST by VitacoreVision
There is only one genuine way to practice Christianity.
The way YOU do.
Right?
Liberalism is like the opposite of nazi-ism. We should be gassing ourselves.
That should end this conversation.
“There is only one genuine way to practice Christianity. The way YOU do. Right?”
All Jews were expected by God to do certain things. If you didn’t do them you could not possibly be practicing genuine Judaism. It’s the same for Christians. If you don’t practice certain things, you aren’t really living the Christian life. Logically, there is no other possibility.
We’re against liberalism, so we should favor collectivization?
I see a Judeo-Christian culture, not just Christian or Christian-Greco-Roman.
Adam was an individual. Eve was an individual. Cain was an individual. Noah, Enoch, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Joshua, Caleb, Samuel, David, Jonah...Each one is celebrated (or not celebrated) for individual personal decisions and actions apart from the culture around them.
The concept of the “individual” - another fine Catholic development.
And the disease of collectivism is the result of mainly three major philosophers: Plato, Kant, and Hegel.
Jesus was the first to proclaim equal value of all individuals. This is the primary reason that liberal progressives and elites have hated Christianity for centuries.
Thanks for posting. I read the excerpt on Amazon and decided to buy the book.
That is what we are seeing now. Individualism taken to the extreme so that the zeitgeist of the day is "Whatever."
St. Paul also stressed the importance of the original small religious communities. Most of his letters were to churches and not individuals.
Society is not just an amalgamation of individuals, but an amalgamation of individuals and their relationships to one another, i.e. the families, churches, guilds, clubs, and other associations of which they are members.
Liberalism went off the rails when it hoisted individuals far above associations and delivered them into the hands of the superstate.
The author is making the point that even average Joes should be treated as individuals and not just playing bit parts in the stories of a few glorious individuals.
And you determine those certain things. Those who don't do the things you've determined, are not Christians, no matter what else they do. Right?
“And you determine those certain things.”
Nope. But I did notice that that is the second time in this thread you said something like that. Apparently you have an issue to deal with that is all your own.
“Those who don’t do the things you’ve determined, are not Christians, no matter what else they do. Right?”
That is not what I said. Note: I said “Nope” when you asked if I was the one who “determine[d] those certain things.”
The simple fact is what I said is absolutely true. Not everyone can do whatever they like and be “really living the Christian life.” I am willing to bet that even you believe that to be true. The issue then is discerning what is and is not essential. About what you posted in the beginning then: Is there any logical reason to believe that a man who isn’t “regularly going to church” or who lacks “even a rudimentary knowledge of Christian doctrine” is in fact “really living the Christian life.” How does someone “really living the Christian life” without “even a rudimentary knowledge of Christian doctrine”?
Can you make any logical argument for what you apparently opposed in your first post?
Look who's taking about logic while pretending to not understand what I'm pointing out.
WHICH Church, Mr. Logician? Do YOU consider all Christian churches equivalent? You most certainly do not. Yet the ones you dismiss have a bible, bible teachings, and people who consider themselves Christan practitioners. Yet, you not only dismiss their efforts, of their souls no less, as inadequate and unchristian, you'd therefore consider them as going to hell.
What I'm pointing out is that most people use their religion to exclude nonmembers, including Christians. There's a breathtaking lack of humility towards beliefs, and an overabundance of those, like you, who know exactly what Jesus meant and exactly how everyone should worship him.
That's my point. If you need to personalize it according to Alinsky's tactical setup, that's an issue all your own. But people like you keep millions away from Christianity. You see, their innermost hearts relationship with the mercy of Jesus might not measure up to your stringent examination. From that, from you, they then generalize Christians and become liberals.
No, its not a stretch. Ask ANY liberal why they aren't Christians and that is what they will tell you. Yet as the uniform response from you and people like you is indifference towards someone therefore bound for hell, well then, everything makes sense, doesn't it?
Except that Jesus also said something about it being better to tie a stone around your neck and cast yourself into the sea, than to harm a hair on the heads of HIS little ones. So who's really going to hell, eh?
“Look who’s taking about logic while pretending to not understand what I’m pointing out.”
To accuse someone of “pretending” is to engage in mind reading. I asked you a specific question about what YOU wrote precisely because it is NOT clear what you are “pointing out”.
“WHICH Church, Mr. Logician?”
Since you cannot make the first thing you are “pointing out” clear you had probably deal with the first issue first. Thus, is there any logical reason to believe that a man who isn’t “regularly going to church†or who lacks “even a rudimentary knowledge of Christian doctrine†is in fact “really living the Christian life.†How does someone “really liv[e] the Christian life†without having “even a rudimentary knowledge of Christian doctrineâ€?
“Do YOU consider all Christian churches equivalent?”
Whether I do or not at this stage is irrelevant since we have not even ascertained whether or not you believe there is any logical reason to believe that a man who isn’t “regularly going to church†or who lacks “even a rudimentary knowledge of Christian doctrine†is in fact “really living the Christian life.†How does someone “really living the Christian life†without “even a rudimentary knowledge of Christian doctrine�
To ask questions about what I believe about “churches” makes no sense when we don’t even know what you really believe about what you yourself said in your first post. YOU were sure to ask about “YOU’ (meaning VitacoreVision) but then you refuse to answer simple questions about whether or not you believe there is any logical reason to believe that a man who isn’t “regularly going to church†or who lacks “even a rudimentary knowledge of Christian doctrine†is in fact “really living the Christian life.†How does someone “really living the Christian life†without “even a rudimentary knowledge of Christian doctrineâ€?
“You most certainly do not. Yet the ones you dismiss have a bible, bible teachings, and people who consider themselves Christan practitioners.”
And the ones I supposedly DON’T dismiss also have “bible[s], bible teachings, and [are] people who consider themselves Christ[i]an practitioners.” So?
“Yet, you not only dismiss their efforts, of their souls no less, as inadequate and unchristian, you’d therefore consider them as going to hell.”
Actually, no. I don’t mind you attacking what I believe, but why on earth would you make up things I’ve never said and don’t believe? You seem to be very emotional about this. Why? You’re apparently emotional enough that you even invent things I never did and never thought. Why?
“What I’m pointing out is that most people use their religion to exclude nonmembers, including Christians.”
Jesus said He was the way, the truth and the life. Do you think that sounds exclusive to atheists, Buddhists, Hindus, pagans, etc? I bet it does. The simple fact is - on one level - the truth is always exclusionary because it can’t include error. This isn’t a slight to people. It’s just how reality works. 2 + 2 = 4 is sure exclusionary to 5 and 3, but it is undoubtedly true.
“There’s a breathtaking lack of humility towards beliefs, and an overabundance of those, like you, who know exactly what Jesus meant and exactly how everyone should worship him.”
So are you claiming you have no idea whatsoever “what Jesus meant and exactly how everyone should worship him.” See, I’m willing to bet you have definite beliefs as to “what Jesus meant and exactly how everyone should worship him” while claiming it’s wrong for anyone else to do it. In other words, you do the same thing you accuse VitacoreVision of doing - even though he actually didn’t do it. He merely posted an article. Yet you said “YOU” to him as if he had done something other than simply posting an article.
“That’s my point. If you need to personalize it according to Alinsky’s tactical setup, that’s an issue all your own.”
That’s a fascinating attack considering your very first post in the thread - the very first post by ANYONE in the thread other than VitacoreVision - says “There is only one genuine way to practice Christianity. The way YOU do. Right?” I guess that log sticking out of your eye is hard to get through doorways, huh? And yet in this post you speak of “a breathtaking lack of humility towards beliefs, and an overabundance of those, like you, who know exactly what Jesus meant and exactly how everyone should worship him.” Kettle. Pot. Alinsky.
“But people like you keep millions away from Christianity.”
Actually, no. You have no idea who I am - although that doesn’t stop you from making some pretty big erroneous assumptions apparently - but I have - if I am to believe the cards, letters, emails, gifts, invitations to weddings and baptisms - brought quite a few people closer to God and deeper into Christianity. I have helped a number of people become Christians, become Catholic Christians and can’t count quite a few people who have told me that I have helped them learn more about God and draw closer to Him. Tomorrow I’ll be helping 70 people in a town 90 minutes from me learn more about Christianity. I do that all the time. Just before Christmas someone who I have been helping gave me a Christmas card with this written inside [I’m going to change all the personal details because you have no right to those and I have enough anti-Catholic stalkers issuing death threats as it is]:
begin paste:
Dear [vladimir998],
I just want you to know that in [what she does] for 32 yrs. and all the [teaching in the Faith] we’ve gotten it doesn’t hold a candle to [...] you are giving us.
I have used so much of what you have given us in my [work and faith sharing]. [People I work with and share my faith with] have been given a new inspiration to read the Bible and integrate it to their [...] lives.
You have been an inspiration to me and my faith. Thank you so much.
Have a blessed Christmas,
End paste.
I get the same sort of thing, by the way, from Protestants I know.
“You see, their innermost hearts relationship with the mercy of Jesus might not measure up to your stringent examination.”
Again, you apparently know NOTHING about me. All the time I am asked to help someone with a problem - including Protestants - because people who actually know me know I can and do help them. Not too long ago a woman I barely know poured out her heart to me about how she was distraught that her Methodist parish decided to accept homosexual marriages. She was devastated because that church - that parish - had been hers since she was a child. Yeah, I see their innermost hearts - when they share them with me.
“From that, from you, they then generalize Christians and become liberals.”
No. Since we know there are Liberals who are Christians, it’s obvious people do not necessarily become Liberals from “generalizing Christians”. There are people who call themselves atheists who say they are conservatives. Are they lying?
“No, its not a stretch. Ask ANY liberal why they aren’t Christians and that is what they will tell you.”
No, it is not what “ANY liberal” would say. Different people reject Christianity for different reasons.
“Yet as the uniform response from you and people like you is indifference towards someone therefore bound for hell, well then, everything makes sense, doesn’t it?”
Again, you’re completely making up something that I have never said nor believed. Why do you do that?
“Except that Jesus also said something about it being better to tie a stone around your neck and cast yourself into the sea, than to harm a hair on the heads of HIS little ones. So who’s really going to hell, eh?”
So are you hurting children? I’m not? And if neither of us is hurting children - I will assume for the moment that you’re not hurting any - then what does your example have to do with what we’re talking about? The only possible connection would be what Jesus says first: “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble,”. No one who knows me would say that about me. Ever. In fact, what is said is the exact opposite. But look again at your first post: “The way YOU do. Right?” You attack when you were not attacked. Couldn’t that make someone stumble? Not so much VitacoreVision, but you yourself.
Now, since you - as I said before - seem to be very emotional about this (when I am not being emotional in the least) you sure seem to be creating your own stumbling so I suggest you don’t hang a large millstone around your neck and throw yourself into the sea, but rather start thinking logically.
Thus, the question is: Is there any logical reason to believe that a man who isn’t “regularly going to church†or who lacks “even a rudimentary knowledge of Christian doctrine†is in fact “really living the Christian life.†How does someone “really liv[e] the Christian life†without having “even a rudimentary knowledge of Christian doctrine�
If you can’t answer those simple questions, and since you are apparently very emotional about all of this, perhaps you should just pray instead of posting.
Sorry, that's a lie. Which means the rest of your taunting book isn't worth reading either. Bye.
Quite apart from the acts of terrorism which invoke — more or less dubiously — the name of Islam,
I’m really getting tired of this. What’s so dubious about it?
“Sorry, that’s a lie.”
No, it is not a lie. You seem desperate.
“Which means the rest of your taunting book isn’t worth reading either.”
There were no taunts - just logical points and questions. And if you didn’t read it, then you can’t say what’s in it. I guess right there we see who is telling the truth and who isn’t, huh?
“Bye.”
And it ends as was expected. You apparently can’t answer what I asked - and if that is the case the reason why is obvious - so you run away. And the beat goes on.
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