The case for getting rid of the requirement that the president must be a “natural born citizen”

The Washington Post ^ | 1/14/2016 | Ilya Somin

[BlackFemaleArmyColonel]

In recent weeks, much time and effort has been devoted to debating whether Ted Cruz is a "natural born citizen" eligible for the presidency. Whichever way you come down on this question of constitutional interpretation, the real lesson of this debate should be the absurdity of excluding naturalized citizens from the presidency in the first place. Categorically excluding immigrants from the presidency is a form of arbitrary discrimination based on place of birth (or, in a few cases, parentage), which is ultimately little different from discrimination on the basis of race or ethnicity. Both ethnicity and place of birth are morally arbitrary characteristics which do not, in themselves, determine a person's competence or moral fitness for high political office.

The "natural born" citizen requirement was originally inserted into the Constitution because some of the Founders feared that European royalty or nobles might move to the United States, get elected to the presidency, and then use the office to advance the interests of their houses. Whatever the merits of this concern back in the 1780s, it is hardly a plausible scenario today.

One can argue that immigrants have less knowledge of the country and its customs, and might make worse presidents for that reason. But that problem is surely addressed by the constitutional requirement that a candidate for president must have been resident in the United States for at least fourteen years. As a practical matter, anyone who attains the political connections and public recognition needed to make a serious run for the presidency is likely to have at least as much knowledge of the US and American politics as most serious native-born candidates do.

[thecodont]

NBC was put in the Constitution by the framers for very good reasons. Poland was dismembered right about that time in large part due to foreign born rulers. They didn’t want that to happen to us.

Great point and thanks for the historic reference. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was dying (final partition in 1795, I think) just as our nation was being born.

[Oceander]

Show us the amendment that cancelled out the natural born citizen clause to become president. Cruz is a natural born Canadian.

You are utterly delusional. I never said anything of the sort. I said that the NBC provision is irrational and creates too much uncertainty, and so should be amended - using the amendment procedure the Founders gave us - to make the standards for the president rational and reasonable.

[Karl Spooner]

GO TRUMP, GO!!

That's all we need to know : )

[Mollypitcher1]

The problems of the black people was settled by the 14th amendment. It was a question of Citizenship.It has NOTHING to do with being eligible for the presidency.

[Windflier]

IMHO it's time to get rid of it and substitute something that is (a) rational, and (b) reasonable.

"Humble" opinion? I think yours is more of a lunatic opinion.

I'm sure others on the thread have already thrashed you up one side and down the other for that ridiculous statement.

[Wissa]

Yeah. It’s probably a case of people being able to get away with more if people know them personally.

[Oceander]

The Founders believed they knew where to draw the line. It’s my view that history has proved them less than completely accurate. Yes, my view, which I am entitled to argue for, thank you very much. And as evidence thereof, I can easily point to the fact that the loyalties of the native born are as likely to be divided as are the loyalties of the naturalized.

[Oceander]

They’ve tried. And they’ve been put in their place for their ridiculous, irrational ad hominems.

[Karl Spooner]

I never said you did. You sound nuts.

[Oceander]

Then why are you asking me to show you a non-existent amendment that is utterly irrelevant to anything I’ve said here? Talk about being nuts, you take the entire nut factory.

[Karl Spooner]

Curz is not a natural born citizen, that’s why.

[Las Vegas Ron]

For your files in case you don't have this: ">

From 1790 Britanica Encyclopedia

[Oceander]

Even if he isn’t, so what? The only bearing that has on what I’ve said is that we’ve had this stupid, asinine level of wasteful argument trying to divine tea leaves when there are much more important things to debate. The appropriate thing to do is to amend the Constitution to clarify the standard that applies. That would necessarily be something prospective and therefore cannot have any bearing on whether Cruz is an NBC or not.

[P-Marlowe]

So what you are saying is that Black people can be Citizens under the 14th Amendment, but can’t be NBC citizens because the Founders didn’t want black people to be citizens at all?

BTW how do you know Trump is an NBC?

Were you present at the conception?

Has he released his DNA results?

[bushpilot2]

[Windflier]

ad hominems

I'm not the type to throw ad hominems at folks I don't personally know. I prefer rigorous debate when arguing with any anonymous poster.

I called your opinion "lunatic", but I didn't throw a personal insult your way.

[House Atreides]

— The ONLY damn thing “natural born citizen” means is that the person is an American citizen immediately upon their birth. —
..............................................................................................................................
and all persons born in those [Virgin] islands on or after February 25, 1927, and subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, are declared to be citizens of the United States at birth.
8 USC 1406

All persons born in the island of Guam on or after April 11, 1899 (whether before or after August 1, 1950) subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, are declared to be citizens of the United States

8 USC 1407

The careful reader will notice that these citizens at birth may have two alien parents.
******************************************************************************

I said, in the post to which you commented, that those who were an American citizen under law IMMEDIATELY UPON THEIR BIRTH were “natural born citizens”

You posted several provisions of the law that (apparently in 1952?) RETROACTIVELY made some categories of people US citizens from their birth. But these people were NOT “natural born citizens” because they were not immediately an American citizen at their birth but instead were made US citizens RETROACTIVELY.

There is MORE SMOKE BEING blown over this “natural born citizen” issue than was created in the Great Yellowstone Park forest fires of the last century.

[rlmorel]

James Kent in his "Commentaries on American Law" wrote this:

"The Constitution requires (a) that the President shall be a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, and that he shall have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and shall have been fourteen years a resident within the United States. Considering the greatness of the trust, and that this department is the ultimately efficient executive power in government, these restrictions will not appear altogether useless or unimportant. As the President is required to be a native citizen of the United States, ambitious foreigners cannot intrigue for the office, and the qualification of birth cuts off all those inducements from abroad to corruption, negotiation, and war, which have frequently and fatally harassed the elective monarchies of Germany and Poland, as well as the pontificate at Rome."

We think just because we are so modern and so well informed that nobody could interfere with us in this way.

Could they.

Could they?

Gee. One looks at the events in this country since January 2009 and one has to wonder.

[BlackFemaleArmyColonel]

Amen.

[Mollypitcher1]

Wow! Incredible!