Excellent analysis of the Cruz eligibility issue (vanity - thread post by freeper Cboldt)

Cboldt

[RoosterRedux]

To: RoosterRedux

-- Do you think that if Trump wins the nomination he could bring sufficient pressure and influence to get McConnell to change? And if McConnell changed, what would be the next step? --

Action in the Senate is a non-starter. I had an epiphany a few minutes ago. I'll share it.

Whether Cruz is NBC or not doesn't matter, not in the least. What matters is that the Canada BC creates a vector of plausible doubt. How, in the election process is this doubt resolved? At first, in the states.

Trump is 100% right. In the general election, in every state that Cruz as Pres or VP wins, there WILL be a lawsuit. The loser in an election has an absolute right to sue on eligibility grounds, regardless of the margin or loss.

So, the political issue is, does the party want to run an election that gets decided by 20 or 30 lawsuits? Before or after the voters voted doesn't matter so much - just changes how the general election is influenced by court decisions, which could well go against Cruz. Trump said, hey, 5% chance Cruz loses. Do you want to go to war with that risk?

Yes, there is a con-law issue in there too. But either the GOP "sues itself" in the primary, which flat out WONT happen, Cruz is certified qualified in all the states, so no challenge on eligibility is possible; leaving the alternative, lawsuits in the general.

We're stuck with that. Lawsuits in the general are dead certain, if Cruz is the nominee.

121 posted on 1/15/2016, 10:15:45 AM by Cboldt

[Godebert]

So what if there are lawsuits? Cruz is a NBC via Title 8 Section 1401 subsection G of the US Code.

You can't define a natural born Citizen with statutory law. Only Natural Law can define a natural born Citizen.

Note the reference to Natural Law in the first sentence of our Declaration of Independence.

It is crystal clear that the Founding Fathers used the Natural Law definition of 'natural born Citizen' when they wrote Article II. By invoking "The Laws of Nature and Nature's God" the 56 signers of the Declaration incorporated a legal standard of freedom into the forms of government that would follow.

President John Quincy Adams, writing in 1839, looked back at the founding period and recognized the true meaning of the Declaration's reliance on the "Laws of Nature and of Nature's God." He observed that the American people's "charter was the Declaration of Independence. Their rights, the natural rights of mankind. Their government, such as should be instituted by the people, under the solemn mutual pledges of perpetual union, founded on the self-evident truth's proclaimed in the Declaration."

The Constitution, Vattel, and “Natural Born Citizen”: What Our Framers Knew

The Laws of Nature and of Nature's God: The True Foundation of American Law

The Supreme Court of the United States has never applied the term “natural born citizen” to any other category than “those born in the country of parents who are citizens thereof”.

MINOR V. HAPPERSETT IS BINDING PRECEDENT AS TO THE CONSTITUTIONAL DEFINITION OF A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.

Neither the 14th Amendment nor Wong Kim Ark make one a Natural Born Citizen

The Harvard Law Review Article Taken Apart Piece by Piece and Utterly Destroyed

Citizenship Terms Used in the U.S. Constitution - The 5 Terms Defined & Some Legal Reference to Same

"The citizenship of no man could be previous to the declaration of independence, and, as a natural right, belongs to none but those who have been born of citizens since the 4th of July, 1776."....David Ramsay, 1789.

A Dissertation on Manner of Acquiring Character & Privileges of Citizen of U.S.-by David Ramsay-1789

The Law of Nations or the Principles of Natural Law (1758)

The Laws of Nature and of Nature's God: The True Foundation of American Law

Publications of the Colonial Society of Massachusetts, Volume 20 - Use of The Law of Nations by the Constitutional Convention

[The Mayor]

I’m not gonna disagree

[AFret.]

frankly i don’t understand why obama, who was born outside of the us top an american citizen mother, is ineligible, but cruz who was born outside of the us to an american citizen mother is eligible.
please explain this to me?

---

obama is black, (protected class) supposedly born in Hawaii, sovereign US state.

Cruz, born in Canada, foreign country, (not of the soil).

[Cboldt]

-- The Federal level could affirm that Cruz is NBC then all lawsuits will be dismissed. --

There is good argument all around, whether a federal court could take the question at all, ever (meaning Congress decides the issue after there is a president-elect), or whether SCOTUS or a federal court can take it up before Congress act.

The most generous grant of judicial intervention follows the Bush v. Gore case. Litigated in both state and federal court. That got to SCOTUS without a split in the circuits.

At any rate, long winded way to say I agree with you, but it's still messy, and the outcome is uncertain at best.

Oh, and to add, these contests can occur at ballot access time, but technically aren't ripe until a state chooses electors.

[Ray76]

Apparently reading is not your strong suit.

[lonestar67]

There is not a single Republican candidate running— including trump that Democrats would not sue in court if they thought it could impede their election.

Three different Republican governors have been indicted by corrupt democrats at the helms of prosecutors offices in Virginia, Texas and Wisconsin.

The refusal of conservatives to stand up to Trump’s liberal NYC values bullying is trash.

It insures that the trial lawyer DNC world that rules this nation is further entrenched as the proper rulers of our Plutocracy.

Trump is a cynical leftist pretending as a Republican because he knows liberalism has fouled his nest in the Democratic party. He openly admits he changed his position on Cruz’s citizenship because Cruz is beating him in Iowa.

Independents are fools to indulge this argument and I seriously question whether any such individuals were going to do anything but vote for Bernie or Clinton from the outset.

[Cletus.D.Yokel]

:: The loser in an election has an absolute right to sue on eligibility grounds, regardless of the margin or loss ::

My understanding is that ONLY the House-of-Representatives and/or The Electoral College have judicial-standing to seek a court’s decision regarding eligibility of POTUS.

[AFret.]

frankly i don’t understand why obama, who was born outside of the us top an american citizen mother, is ineligible, but cruz who was born outside of the us to an american citizen mother is eligible.
please explain this to me?
obama is black, (protected class) supposedly born in Hawaii, sovereign US state.

Cruz, born in Canada, foreign country, (not of the soil).

---

Oops, misread the question. I read what makes obama eligible, not ineligible..(RTFQ)..

[HarleyLady27]

I agree...we have to have this cleared up for AMERICA....

We have a country now that has been gutted by a non American, one who hates every facet of American values and look were we are, do we want another ‘phony’ in the White House again?

America is a Nation of Laws and those laws are what we live by, if another person born in another country wants to come in and ‘hid’ everything from the laws, then we as AMERICAN CITIZENS need to know the truth, and we need this put the way the framers of our Constitution declared it to be...”Natural Born Citizen” to be President or V.P. of the United States of America...

‘The truth will set us free’

[RC one]

I’m not sure they have the authority to rule on what a NBC is or isn’t. It’s rarely been an issue that has required clarification. That it has been an issue for three elections in a row now is a sign of the times and evidences the need for article II, section 1, paragraph 5 in 2016 just as much as in 1787.

[Cletus.D.Yokel]

Note that your #3 is the only avenue that this issue can be pursued to the SCOTUS (Marbury v Madison).

[hoosiermama]

Brl

[UCANSEE2]

I would agree with you, but I wonder, if Trump is the nominee, will the DEMS find something to sue him over anyway ?

I cannot see Valerie Jarrett giving up her position as Consigliere to ‘a’ President.

[dowcaet]

I agree. I think for all his intelligence Cruz goofed big time on this. Didn’t he realize his entire birth status was a keg of dynamite that would explode especially with the stakes so high in a presidential race. If we’re all upset with Trump alluding to Ted’s NBC status this is nothing compared to what the Democrats will do to him.

[UCANSEE2]

frankly i don’t understand why obama, who was born outside of the us top an american citizen mother,

I'm not sure that Stanley Ann Dunham was his biological mother.

[Zathras]

Trump initially did a poor job of explaining his concerns.
He is correct that Cruz needs to get this legally resolved NOW or the combined Obama/Clinton machine will destroy his political future.

[mad_as_he$$]

Exactly. Wasn’t part of one ruling something like - Obama was elected so he is OK for the job?

[UCANSEE2]

Which makes me think that he could go all the way, win, and then be disqualified by a suit, and that is not something that I find appealing to be perfectly honest.

If that were to happen, who would then become President ?

[Cboldt]

-- My understanding is that ONLY the House-of-Representatives and/or The Electoral College have judicial-standing to seek a court's decision regarding eligibility of POTUS. --

Were you awake when Bush v. Gore was litigated in Florida, up to the Florida Supreme Court (SCOFLA, Hah!)?

It was a mess, and a real eye-opener into judicial activism by a state court. All the state supreme courts have the right to hear and decide the challenges.

[Cboldt]

NBC has never been an issue, really. All the candidates either were or pretended to be born in the USA. Cruz is asserting he was born in Canada. First time this fact pattern has ever appeared (how can it possibly be settled?).

Eldridge Cleaver was denied ballot access in California on age grounds, by the Secretary of State. There may be other "kook/unqualified" filings that election commissions handled. Under the radar stuff.

Cruz's candidacy is not under the radar.