Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: Cboldt
How can that be true if Cruz (just by example) can get a Certificate of Citizenship after he reaches the age of majority?

But he didn't wait until the age of majority. His mother registered him at the consulate. And if Cruz waited before or until the age of majority, he would have to apply for it. It is a nine page form. This is called citizenship through derivation.

I don't disagree. I said that you can't lose your claim to citizenship. Cruz has every right to make such a claim and there are ways to do that. If he failed to get a CRBA, it will be a much more complicated and lengthy process.

I say there is a similar principle here. Citizenship exists independently of the certificate. The only difference is the means of certification. Certification of citizenship for a native born person is a birth certificate, and for a foreign born citizen, is a CRBA, passport, or Certificate of Citizenship.

The difference is that the native born is automatically a citizen without having to apply for anything. For someone born overseas, they must take a proactive approach to obtain citizenship. It is not automatic. You have to apply for it. First, you have to prove that you are eligible.

I want to revisit two statements you make in your post, and you tell me if they contain any conflict.

No conflict whatsoever. Ted Cruz is automatically a Canadian citizen at birth. If his mother failed to apply for US citizenship for him, he could do it himself. The other choice is to remain a Canadian citizen only.

One other point ... I don't see the activity (of a foreign born citizen) as applying for citizenship. I see it as applying for certification of citizenship.

First you have to prove that you are eligible. There are restrictions on who can become an American citizen even if your mother or father was/is an American citizen. some examples:

Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock (This is the one that matters if Obama was born outside the US)

A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) of the INA provided the U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen, is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen, is required for physical presence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.) The U.S. citizen parent must be the genetic or the gestational parent and the legal parent of the child under local law at the time and place of the child’s birth to transmit U.S. citizenship.

Birth Abroad Out-of-Wedlock to a U.S. Citizen Mother:

A person born abroad out-of-wedlock to a U.S. citizen mother may acquire U.S. citizenship under Section 309(c) of the INA if the mother was a U.S. citizen at the time of the person’s birth and if the mother was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the person’s birth. The U.S. citizen mother must be the genetic or the gestational mother and the legal parent of the child under local law at the time and place of the child’s birth to transmit U.S. citizenship.

I see the various conditions that apply to someone born abroad to be significantly different than the acquisition of citizenship thru birthright citizenship, jus solis There are conditions that circumscribe who is eligible to get derivative citizenship being born overseas. And laws are revised changing these conditions. There are no such limitations and conditions for those born on US soil. Are both natural born citizens? I have my doubts.

160 posted on 01/07/2016 2:39:02 PM PST by kabar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 144 | View Replies ]


To: kabar
-- For someone born overseas, they must take a proactive approach to obtain citizenship. It is not automatic. You have to apply for it. --

That just confirms our disagreement. Likely an academic point, figuring Cruz has a US passport, or there is a CRBA. at least you have backed away from the necessity of a CRBA in order for Cruz to be a citizen today.

-- First you have to prove that you are eligible. There are restrictions on who can become an American citizen even if your mother or father was/is an American citizen. --

I haven't expressly stated it in my remarks, but I've assumed for the sake of argument that, to use your vernacular, "Cruz is eligible." In my vernacular, if circumstnaces of his birth meet the statutory requirements, then he IS a citizen, before he presents himself to the examiner. Your position is that he is not a citizen until the examiner says so.

164 posted on 01/07/2016 2:49:42 PM PST by Cboldt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 160 | View Replies ]

To: kabar
-- But he didn't wait until the age of majority. His mother registered him at the consulate. --

How do you know that?

167 posted on 01/07/2016 2:55:15 PM PST by Cboldt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 160 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson