Posted on 01/07/2016 9:35:59 AM PST by Isara
Why?
I linked to the story, which clearly states that he has provided his Canadian BC and the paper renouncing his Canadian citizenship. If it is true that he has not shown the papers registering him at the Consulate, then why not provide them?
Maybe, and that is a slim maybe but for sure Ted Cruz is not a Natural Born Citizen. Sans his CRBA his is at best a grand fathered in naturalized US citizen, maybe.
How can that be true if Cruz (just by example) can get a Certificate of Citizenship after he reaches the age of majority?
-- American citizenship was an option that his mother could elect or forgo. --
That's what we disagree on. I say the statute confers citizenship, even if his parents don't obtain a CRBA.
-- Compare that to the child of an illegal alien born in the US who becomes an American citizen at birth. The only proof of citizenship needed is a birth certificate. --
I say there is a similar principle here. Citizenship exists independently of the certificate. The only difference is the means of certification. Certification of citizenship for a native born person is a birth certificate, and for a foreign born citizen, is a CRBA, passport, or Certificate of Citizenship.
I want to revisit two statements you make in your post, and you tell me if they contain any conflict.
No it did not, The Constitution says that only a Natural Born Citizen (NBC) is eligible to serve as POTUS. The question than becomes what did the founders understand to be a NBC in 1788.
I know that. I was responding to a reference to those items in another post.
Birth records are sealed naturally to curtail identity theft and protect privacy. I can't get a copy of your birth certificate without your consent. You can look up "how to get a copy of your birth certificate" at any birth records registrar, they have similar requirements for getting a certified copy of your birth certificate.
As for why Cruz released his birth certificate, I assume it was to provide at least part of the evidence that he was a citizen at birth. His BC shows his mother born in the US. I agree with those who say this is not sufficient evidence to establish citizenship, but it is part of that package.
We can’t take this seriously without your picture at the top of your column. /s
Nothing is relevant other than Cruz’s mom’s birth certificate.
This might be angels on the head of a pin, but I say citizenship exists independently of certification. Not as common today as in years gone by, but some people born in the US, to US citizen parents, don't get birth cerificates. They are still citizens.
I agree that a CRBA serves the same purpose for citizenship determination, and there is also a Certificate of Citizeship which can be obtained by a person who doesn't have a CRBA but meets the stautory criteria for citizenship.
However, a better argument for McCain (made by some at the time I believe) would be that children born abroad, to citizens in military or consular service, fall under the original understanding of "natural born" at the time of the Founders.
The authors cite to the Naturalization Act of 1790 and ignore the fact that the Naturalization Act of 1795, with the lead of then-Rep. James Madison and with the approval of President George Washington, repealed it and specifically changed "shall be considered as natural born citizens" to "shall be considered as citizens of the United States."
James Madison the "father of the Constitution" changed the wording from "natural born citizen" to "citizen". Madison was no dope and the change was to prevent a foriegn born from becoming Commander in Chief. But this also serves to illustrate that "citizen at birth" does not mean "natural born citizen".
See more at
https://cdrkerchner.wordpress.com/tag/harvard-law-review/
I agree with that. His US citizenship depends on operation of a US Statute. If he was naturally a citizen, he would be so without operation of a statute.
A natural born citizen is so because of Natural Law not government laws. Some one born on soil with two citizen parents is a natural born citizen because no other sovereign but the sovereign of the soil he was born on has any claim to his elegance.
This is not rocket science.
That sort of logic appears in the resolution too.
Whereas there is no evidence of the intention of the Framers or any Congress to limit the constitutional rights of children born to Americans serving in the military nor to prevent those children from serving as their country's President;Whereas such limitations would be inconsistent with the purpose and intent of the "natural born Citizen" clause of the Constitution of the United States, as evidenced by the First Congress's own statute defining the term "natural born Citizen";
If the statute confers citizenship then Crus is a citizen via statute and not a Natural Born Citizen (NBC). NBC is via Natural Law not statute.
Please ping me when you post Teds’ moms’ birth certificate. TIA
Provide something in the Constitution or Congressional statute that says that NBC must have two citizen parents.
I’m sure Ted’s mom actually arrived in Maryland as an infant from an alien spaceship. This is all a conspiracy to get an alien into the White House.
But he didn't wait until the age of majority. His mother registered him at the consulate. And if Cruz waited before or until the age of majority, he would have to apply for it. It is a nine page form. This is called citizenship through derivation.
I don't disagree. I said that you can't lose your claim to citizenship. Cruz has every right to make such a claim and there are ways to do that. If he failed to get a CRBA, it will be a much more complicated and lengthy process.
I say there is a similar principle here. Citizenship exists independently of the certificate. The only difference is the means of certification. Certification of citizenship for a native born person is a birth certificate, and for a foreign born citizen, is a CRBA, passport, or Certificate of Citizenship.
The difference is that the native born is automatically a citizen without having to apply for anything. For someone born overseas, they must take a proactive approach to obtain citizenship. It is not automatic. You have to apply for it. First, you have to prove that you are eligible.
I want to revisit two statements you make in your post, and you tell me if they contain any conflict.
No conflict whatsoever. Ted Cruz is automatically a Canadian citizen at birth. If his mother failed to apply for US citizenship for him, he could do it himself. The other choice is to remain a Canadian citizen only.
One other point ... I don't see the activity (of a foreign born citizen) as applying for citizenship. I see it as applying for certification of citizenship.
First you have to prove that you are eligible. There are restrictions on who can become an American citizen even if your mother or father was/is an American citizen. some examples:
Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock (This is the one that matters if Obama was born outside the US)
A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) of the INA provided the U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen, is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen, is required for physical presence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.) The U.S. citizen parent must be the genetic or the gestational parent and the legal parent of the child under local law at the time and place of the childâs birth to transmit U.S. citizenship.
Birth Abroad Out-of-Wedlock to a U.S. Citizen Mother:
A person born abroad out-of-wedlock to a U.S. citizen mother may acquire U.S. citizenship under Section 309(c) of the INA if the mother was a U.S. citizen at the time of the personâs birth and if the mother was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the personâs birth. The U.S. citizen mother must be the genetic or the gestational mother and the legal parent of the child under local law at the time and place of the childâs birth to transmit U.S. citizenship.
I see the various conditions that apply to someone born abroad to be significantly different than the acquisition of citizenship thru birthright citizenship, jus solis There are conditions that circumscribe who is eligible to get derivative citizenship being born overseas. And laws are revised changing these conditions. There are no such limitations and conditions for those born on US soil. Are both natural born citizens? I have my doubts.
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