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To: central_va; itsahoot
I am a fan of Apple products but the way they conduct business is reprehensible IMO, but I still buy their products, Mac s and i-phones.

I am going to call BS on your owning Apple products, central_va. It has been my experience that anyone who talks like you about Apple will not buy their products. . . especially when you claim to own one of their iPhones, but cannot spell the name of it, consistently spelling it "I-phone." Every single time I run into that, the person claiming such ownership is doing so to give them credit for their FUD they are spinning and pushing around. It doesn't work. It shows they really don't know what they are talking about because they don't even own the product they are talking about. Frankly, you say it too often for you to be believable at all.

I told you I am educated as an ECONOMIST and I am not spewing anything I pulled out my nose that was blown up my ass from Apple. I've been a CEO and know what I am talking about in economics and accounting, especially in microeconomics. YOU obviously do not. I am basing what I am telling you from sources other than Apple and from my own experience with product production. I have a background that includes production accounting, so I can call BS on your claims all day long with the knowledge and authority to do so. You spout idiotic claims and I WILL NOT LET IDIOCY STAND, central_va. Ergo, you are standing there with your head in your hands.

You don't have a clue when you say idiotic things such as "The fact is the I-phone (sic) could be made in the USA and the retail price differential would hardly be noticed by the consumer."

I assure you the consumer would most certainly notice. It is NOT just the labor costs that would be added but the cost factor of all the load of regulations on top of those labor costs. In addition, there is the fact that we simply do not have the infrastructure to facilitate the just-in-time delivery necessary for such assembly from multiple parts coming from all over the world. If you have to have warehouse storage of parts you increase costs and added labor costs to manage and move those parts. More increases in the final price to consumers. Shipping to and from the United States to other countries is three to four times more expensive than shipping to and from China due to port fees and union labor contracts. This means higher prices for iPhones regardless of where they are sold and that means that they are less competitive against all other smartphones that are made in China that don't have all these additional costs that YOU don't even think exist.

Now, let's talk taxation. It is not just the wages paid to the workers. For every $100 a US business pays an employee, the business also has historically had to pay approximately $30 to $40 in additional fees and taxes to the government and benefit programs. I haven't figured it lately, but with Obambicare, it's probably more like $50 to $60 now. In some risky areas of work, the worker's compensation alone can be one-for-one equal to the pay.

How about plant and equipment, central_va? Apple has $225 Billion invested in the equipment it has provided for the contractors which does NOT include buildings, only tools. CnC machines for carving aluminum billets into frames, computer controlled lathes, milling machines, drill presses, electronic component placing robots, etc. 225 billion dollars worth in China. . . which would have to be moved to facilities in the US which are not built, prepped to accept them, do not have power routed to them, and need to be producing product non-stop. What would be the cost to acquire building lots and then erect these factories, central_va? What would the added costs of property taxes be, which I assure you would be added to the costs of the iPhones, iPads, Macbook computers, etc. now being built in the USA, which YOU claim the price increases wouldn't be noticeable. Once those facilities are built, including access roads, and improvements for the communities where they will be located, they require property management, guarding, etc. (I might mention those costs being an expense of the contract assembler, were shared with 500 or so OTHER customers of the contract customer, not solely the obligation of Apple.) Apple builds their server farms in the USA and although they are not too heavy in employment as an assembly plant would be, each of them took about two years from application for permits to breaking ground and then another two years to complete and $2 BILLION to build.

Since Apple has to keep it's China operation still going while preparing to move back to the US, each plant will cost probably MORE than $200 Billion for plant and state of the art equipment to replace what Apple already has access to in China and elsewhere. After all, Apple only paid for the specialty tools they needed in China, not the already existing tools provided by the contract assemblers. Land and buildings are much more expensive over here. . . as are construction labor. Steve Jobs presented the request for permits for their new headquarters six months before he died in 2011. Apple has been building on that facility since six months after he died. . . and won't complete THAT facility until the end of 2016. FOUR YEARS and it's only going to cost about $300 million. All that investment has to be amortized into the cost of the new iPhones, iPads, computers, etc. And YOU say the consumers won't notice the increases in costs.

Everything you spout out in your posts shows you are a know-nothing about doing business in the US and putting up with business regulations and the requirements of living under those regs. Did you NOT pay any attention to the story I told you about the business with the USB power outlets? Apparently not. Apparently you missed the important fact that that imported CHINESE product could be SOLD RETAIL for less than it COST to MAKE the USA version in this country. That made it totally uneconomical to even try to compete with a product made in the USA. He could not have sold a single one produced here. His only selling point would have been "Made in the USA" and that is simply not good enough in an era where Amazon is succeeding and the Mom-and-Pop stores are going under despite the personal service they can provide.

That outlet product had only about 20 parts to build and assemble and sold for under $30. The iPhones have over 2,000 parts that go into the final product. I don't know how many steps are involved in the labor necessary to manufacture it. . . but UBS and CNBC are just guessing what assembling it costs Apple, they really do not know anything about that. Apple isn't telling and neither is FoxConn nor Pegatron, Apple's main assemblers. By the way, China is not the only country where Apple assembles iPhones. They are assembled in China, Brazil, Ireland, and Indonesia, IIRC.

I once discussed the packaging Apple uses with their iPhones with a major packaging manufacturer in the USA. He was in awe of the quality and fit. I asked him what his company would have to charge to produce the packaging in quantity in the US. He said he wouldn't even want to touch such a complex package for under $25 - $30 a unit, even in huge numbers. He said if they produced millions they might get them down to $20 - $22, but it would be difficult.

As I told you, you don't have a clue what you are talking about. I am sure I am missing a lot in this short treatise off the top of my head. . . but it should give anyone a brief understanding it is NOT just labor costs.

128 posted on 01/05/2016 7:56:15 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue....)
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To: Swordmaker

I own three i-phones(family) a mac book and an I-mac which I am using right now. I have a windows box for work.


129 posted on 01/05/2016 8:01:31 PM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Swordmaker
Sorry but to reiterate; I have 3 iPhones for me and my family. I have a mac book pro and and iMac which is an older model (6 years old) that I installed Mountain Lion OSX 10.8 and upgraded the memory to 4 gig. Again I like Apple products. I still use my iPhone 4 daily and expect it will last many more years. I am not someone who has to upgrade to feel "with it".

This CEO is a real douche bag and I sold all my apple stock years ago.

What planet is this CEO ass wipe from? He insults Americans and but wants them to buy their products....

I think most Hollyweird actors are douche bags too, but if the movie is good I will still watch it.

132 posted on 01/05/2016 8:13:58 PM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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