Posted on 10/13/2015 7:38:14 AM PDT by RummyChick
“How many people have weapons that can shoot down airliners?”
The Ukrainian and Russian militaries do.
1) There were numerous warnings of “stolen” SAMs being in the area for weeks.
2) Numerous aircraft comparable to airliners were already shot down for weeks. Albeit flying low.
3) 3 days before this incident, a large cargo plane cruising at 24,000ft was shot down. So it was 10000% obvious for AT LEAST 3 DAYS that airliners at cruising altitude could be shot down at any moment.
4) Then BAM. This happens and no ATC officials are even questioned for a year!
I know BS when I see it...
These claims have been debunked for over a month, and even contradict Russian official findings of those who worked within the investigation. You can learn about it in these links:
http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-live-day-603-dutch-safety-board-release-mh17-report/
http://www.interpretermag.com/there-was-no-buk-in-our-field/
Considering the Russkies even put forward satellite photos of an SU-25 shooting down MH-17, which they now completely contradict, why are we believing them when they now suddenly say it was a BuK which they’ve been denying constantly?
Putin shot down that plane in his quest to save Christianity.
We knew the facts before the incident even occurred?
That will make Putin's troll army here on Freerepublic cry.
Even the AN-26 you are referring to has exactly 24,000 feet as its maximum ceiling height. Airliners are cruising far higher than that, and move at more than double the speed of Ukrainian cargo planes!
Evidently airlines felt that they wouldn't be deliberately targeted, even Russian ones. We now know, of course, that that isn't the case.
“Evidently airlines felt that they wouldn’t be deliberately targeted, even Russian ones. We now know, of course, that that isn’t the case.”
Irrelevant.
“A chance of conflicting ATC” was enough of a reason to ban flights over Crimea. Therefore missiles being launched into the sky should have been a MUCH greater reason.
“Targeting” is a joke. You don’t fly airliners where you know there are drunk fools operating Russian SAMs from the 1980s. Nomatter what you think their orders are. PERIOD
And yet Drunk Russkie "separatists" couldn't have possibly manned the BuK, as it's not as if you can teach yourself how to work them. State involvement was necessary and guaranteed.
By the way, Eurocontrol has approved the flights themselves, calling it safe, and MH17 had flown the same route before. There were multiple other airliners in the sky-- most notably a Russian one. I am of the opinion (and so is Ukrainian intelligence) that the Russian airliner was the original intended target, but that the BuK was transported to the wrong location and fired at the wrong target, thus leading to the cluster-you-know-what with the Russian "separatists" on the ground immediately boasting of the shooting and then later freaking out when they arrived at the wreckage.
Russian forces had already been firing at their own occupied cities in the first place (I can prove this with pictures) and using it to fuel propaganda against Ukraine. It is not a big leap to target a Russian airliner in order to justify a full-scale invasion. All that went out the window with their incompetence.
Yes, 62 operators from 31 different countries, all thought it was safe. What was the difference between that day and all the previous days?: The Russkies wanted to shoot an airliner down.
Where are these Drunk Russkie “separatists” anyways. Kiev had pictures of the missile launcher and cartoon like audio clips but let them slip away. Odd isn’t it.
(CNN)Ukrainian authorities had “sufficient reason” to close the airspace over conflict-stricken eastern Ukraine before the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, according to the findings of a Dutch investigation into the crash.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/13/europe/mh17-ukraine-dutch-report/index.html
Next logical question would be. Why didn’t they?
On Russian controlled territory? You are getting desperate. This crap isn't even sticky in any way.
Here is the full statement:
"During the period in which the conflict in the eastern part of Ukraine expanded into the airspace, neither Ukraine nor other states or international organizations issued any specific security warnings to civil aviation about the airspace above the eastern part of Ukraine," the DSB said."
The real question is: Why did none of the 31 states forbid their airlines from flying in that space?
Because you don't confuse a 747 flying at 33 thousand feet with a helicopter or an Su-25.
I’m not ruling out state involvement. Just saying that allowing these planes to fly overhead where SAMs were being launched was a crime in itself.
Even if we knew they were being directly operated by the best Russian SAM operators in the world, flying there was STILL a crime.
Also, anyone who isn’t a complete moron can learn enough within hours to shoot at a random target with a SAM. These systems are designed to be readied and fire in seconds in the heat of battle. Identifying targets and coordinating intelligence is the hard part. Even harder when there are so many infiltrators and spies around.
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-07/23/sa-11-missiles
All things you mention are possible. But Eurocontrol is ultimately responsible for allowing the flights over a warzone.
The fact that they banned flights above Crimea over far less danger means MH17 was either incompetence or part of a political game.
The fact that NOBODY was crucified over this incompetence makes me lean toward “murder for politics”.
61 operators from 31 different countries, flying every day in that same airspace, even the same route, but they're the criminals? Why weren't they being shot down weeks earlier?
You might accuse them of negligence, but it's not like it was just one or two jets in the air. We're talking hundreds of flights, all of which clearly visible on Russian radar, yet none were shot down by Russian forces even as they were shooting down helicopters, ground attack jets and cargo planes, as you said.
Also, anyone who isn’t a complete moron can learn enough within hours to shoot at a random target with a SAM.
You're making an assumption here that the BuK launcher was relying on its own limited radar and not on its counterpart radar station which was parked right on the border on Russian territory.
The difference is that it's no longer a moron shooting at random targets (which in that case he should have been shooting at every target in the sky, including all the previous planes that had flown over that route in just the past 6 days) but now a trained Russian military operative under direct command.
There is no reason to accept even the fall-back mythology pushed by Russia's trolls: that the "separatists" would have stolen a BuK, operated one on its own independent of Russian military control, and just been shooting at random blips on the radar.
These BuKs are manned by teams and multiple components all working together:
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