Why black teachers are leaving urban schools

The Christian Science Monitor ^ | September 19, 2015 | Olivia Lowenberg

[FredZarguna]

I didn't say it was easy [at least, to do well.].

I said the claim that teachers are underpaid is untrue. I then provided you with three examples of other professionals who routinely put in uncompensated time outside of their regular hours. To this, you have no reply.

I pointed out how many hours teachers nominally work compared to the nominal hours of FTE's, and the corresponding compensation. To this comparison, you also have no reply.

Your "challenge" that anyone who questions teacher compensation needs to work in the profession for 30 years is ridiculous. The idea that this "challenge" somehow authenticates teachers' bogus claims that they're underpaid is a complete non sequitur and is not an argument, and the rest is ad hominem, which is also not an argument.

Welcome to the real world. It's not easy for anyone, but most of us don't pretend to be ill-used because we have to work a few hours on a weekend.

[Nailbiter]

bflr

[SCalGal]

The child doesn’t want to learn adult skills. The child wants candy.

My HS students in a nutshell. They like "The Wheels on the Bus go Round and Round".

And I'm trying to teach budgeting. *sigh*

[A_perfect_lady]

I feel like you are saying two different things. First you say that teachers don't work hard because they don't work that many hours.

Then when people tell you that they work more hours than you are clocking, you say, "So what, so do (some) other professions."

Okay. But that doesn't change the fact that this means that your first assertion was wrong.

So why couldn't you handle teaching, anyway?

[A_perfect_lady]

Did you suffer through the “What Does the Fox Say” craze?

[FredZarguna]

No, I say what teachers are paid is more than they should be paid for what is ordinarily a nominal 1260-1500 hours per year, compared to a nominal 2000 hours for a full time employee.

Teachers like to pretend that they work as many hours as FTE's because they put in so many hours after school; they fail to take in to account that most full time white collar professionals put in at least as many hours beyond their nominal time as teachers do.

Bottom line: when you add extra hours that ALL college educated professionals put in, teachers still work 500-750 fewer hours per year. Consequently, they deserve to be paid considerably less than FTE's are paid. And the truth is, many ARE NOT paid less than FTE professionals.

So why couldn't you handle teaching, anyway?

Your presumption is annoying. I handled teaching just fine. I have several teaching awards at both high school and undergraduate level. I wasn't terrifically enthused with academia after I got my PhD, and decided to do something new. It wasn't the first time: I was a machinist for years before I went back to graduate school.

[A_perfect_lady]

Of the white collar professionals that I have known, what you say is simply not true. They rarely seem to work at home. You mentioned software developers, and that's fine, but I have had friends who were in IT, who were in personnel management, who were (are) defense contractors, who worked in law offices (not the lawyers themselves, but support) who were in advertising... and their at-home work ranged from "the occasional report" to "absolutely nothing." So while I do not complain about my pay, personally, I do not accept your statement that I am overpaid.

So, you were an award winning teacher who got sick of being paid so much to do so little, eh? Well, it's an honor to meet you, I can tell you. It's rare on the internet to find people willing to demand so much admiration. Oh wait, no it isn't.

[FredZarguna]

I didn’t ask for your admiration, and I’m not the least bit interested in it. You implied I “couldn’t handle teaching.” I corrected you. You should learn the difference between being grandiose, and merely being right.

[A_perfect_lady]

You didn’t correct me, you merely denied the obvious: that you claim teachers have it easy, but you still couldn’t stick with it.

[SCalGal]

Did you suffer through the “What Does the Fox Say” craze?

No, but I got to try clicker-training them.

[FredZarguna]

If you don’t understand my answer, I’m going to guess [and certainly hope] you don’t teach math or any form of quantified science.

[A_perfect_lady]

You will be relieved to know I teach English. And no, I don't understand your answer. It still looks like: Teachers don't teach that many hours (yes we do) Well so what, so do some other professions.

It rather reminds me of the muslim reaction to 9/11: We didn't do it, and if you don't watch out, we'll do it again.

[FredZarguna]

That's not what it says. It says:

1. You don't work that many hours.
2. You think you do because there are required hours outside the "office."
3. Your rationale in (2) is false: everyone else puts in hours outside the office.
4. At the end of a 24 hour day, you're still working only 2/3 to 3/4 of what a full time person works.

[A_perfect_lady]

EVERYONE puts in hours outside the office? No, they do not. I have already told you I have had friends in IT and management and law support and government defense contracting, and I'll add the ones I have known in prison supply, and insurance, and boiler quality assurance and no, they did not. Your only example was a software developer.

Now, if you said I only work 3/4 of the YEAR that an average full time person works, I'd agree. But while I am working, I am working pretty hard.

Now, maybe you didn't. Maybe you were one of those teachers who is out the door the minute the kids are. I've seen those teachers, and I don't really get it, but I know they exist.

[FredZarguna]

In your capacity as an English teacher do you have to read?

Because I gave you three examples. Re-read the post.

As for my tenure as a teacher, apparently you have me confused with one of your lazy friends. I was, and am, neither.

[A_perfect_lady]

And from those three you extrapolated in big, block letters that ALL PROFESSIONAL PEOPLE...

Yeah, I don't think you are impressing me any more than I am impressing you. I do admire your absolute determination to have the last word, though.

And clearly this will go on until I let you have it, because that's the personality type you are. So I will throw in the towel and tell you that you are RIGHT and you have changed my mind! I now realize that I was very wise to pick teaching as a profession. I get paid well and have a great deal of free time (more, apparently, than I am actually aware of.)

Now I can only pity all you idiots working so hard for a living. It's a shame you couldn't stick it out. I have to admit, I tend to forget to figure in my retirement, which I just checked on, and... wow. What a fool you were to leave this sweet, cushy job.