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Same-sex couples issued marriage licenses in Rowan County
Lexington Herald Leader ^ | September 4, 2015 | John Cheves

Posted on 09/05/2015 1:31:37 AM PDT by jpsb

They are not being issued under the authority of the Rowan County clerk's office. They are not worth the paper that they are written on," said attorney Mat Staver after meeting with Davis in the Carter County jail in Grayson.

Rowan County Attorney Cecil Watkins previously dismissed that argument, saying deputy clerks can issue valid marriage licenses without their boss's approval.

(Excerpt) Read more at kentucky.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: homosexualagenda; homosexuals; kentucky; marriage; samesex; ssm
Things are heating up in Kentucky
1 posted on 09/05/2015 1:31:38 AM PDT by jpsb
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To: All

all this to-do for three “couples” that can easily drive down the road to get “married” in the next county.. If they desperately need the government to justify their existence, a 20-30 minute drive is nothing..


2 posted on 09/05/2015 1:52:35 AM PDT by newnhdad (Our new motto: USA, it was fun while it lasted.)
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To: jpsb

This worthless iPad won’t let me load that article. But, I read the clerk shook the homosexual couples’ hands, and said garbage. The clerk didn’t shake my hand. I should sue!


3 posted on 09/05/2015 1:53:17 AM PDT by NetAddicted (Just looking)
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To: jpsb

Judgement day is coming for all sodomites and not believers.

We know where Kim Davis and Ted Cruz stands. With God and against the unconstitutional SCOTUS

We know where Trump stands. With the queers, the unconstitutional law and SCOTUS.


4 posted on 09/05/2015 2:05:29 AM PDT by eartick (Been to the line in the sand and liked it)
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To: eartick
There is a lot of time left and many personalities to filter through the American flag

I'll wait for the coffee to be done, but I do LOVE the aroma of it brewing.

Must be morning time here in America for me to be coming up with coffee metaphors

5 posted on 09/05/2015 3:39:52 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true.)
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To: newnhdad

Isn’t it illegal in KY for a pastor to solemnize a marriage without getting a marriage license first?

Freegards


6 posted on 09/05/2015 6:02:32 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: jpsb; P-Marlowe

Looking below, it appears that the county judge/executive can issue licenses in the absence of the clerk, but not in regard to prohibited marriages. Since this has no severability clause and other Kentucky statutes do, then one is on safe ground saying that all of chapter 402 has been thrown out and that they are awaiting new legislation.

Kentucky marriage statute: Chapter 402.990(8)

“If any deputy clerk or any person other than a county clerk knowingly issues a marriage license in violation of this chapter, but not for a prohibited marriage, he shall be guilty of a Class A misdemeanor, and if he knowingly issues a license for a marriage prohibited by this chapter, he shall be guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.”

402.080
“402.080 Marriage license required — Who may issue.
No marriage shall be solemnized without a license therefor. The license shall be issued by the clerk of the county in which the female resides at the time, unless the female is eighteen (18) years of age or over or a widow, and the license is issued on her application in person or by writing signed by her, in which case it may be issued by any county clerk.”

402.240
402.240 County judge/executive to issue license in absence of clerk.
In the absence of the county clerk, or during a vacancy in the office, the county judge/executive may issue the license and, in so doing, he shall perform the duties and incur all the responsibilities of the clerk. The county judge/executive shall return a memorandum thereof to the clerk, and the memorandum shall be recorded as if the license had been issued by the clerk.


7 posted on 09/05/2015 8:08:16 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True Supporters of our Troops PRAY for their Victory!)
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To: eartick

One thing I have noticed with Trump; if he hasn’t thought about an issue he gets it wrong. I am still hoping he’ll come around on this.


8 posted on 09/05/2015 8:12:03 AM PDT by jpsb (Believe nothing until it has been officially denied)
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To: Ransomed

Yes illegal.


9 posted on 09/05/2015 8:13:00 AM PDT by jpsb (Believe nothing until it has been officially denied)
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To: xzins

Good catch, it appear Judge Bunning ordered the assistant clerks to commit class C and A misdemeanors. Bunning should be impeached first.


10 posted on 09/05/2015 8:15:43 AM PDT by jpsb (Believe nothing until it has been officially denied)
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To: jpsb; P-Marlowe; wagglebee

Thanks, jpsb. Bunning will say that he hasn’t ordered anyone to perform a prohibited marriage because homosexualist marredrages are now legal.

If it were true that the sections prohibiting such marredrages could be excised without affecting the who statute, then he would be right. However, there is no severability clause in this statute. If one portion is struck down then the entire law is struck down.

The clerk is right to await new legislation.


11 posted on 09/05/2015 8:26:07 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True Supporters of our Troops PRAY for their Victory!)
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To: xzins

“No marriage shall be solemnized without a license therefor.”

Do you happen to know what this means? To my understanding this is the reason given why clergy/pastors won’t perform a marriage without state permission, such as widows that have pensions or benefits that would be altered after a state recognized remarriage. Does it only apply to those who already act as representatives of the state or everyone or what?

Freegards


12 posted on 09/05/2015 8:31:17 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: xzins; jpsb; wagglebee; Jim Robinson
Thanks, jpsb. Bunning will say that he hasn’t ordered anyone to perform a prohibited marriage because homosexualist maarriages are now legal.

There is no such thing a "Marriage" in Kentucky right now. Section 402.005 has been voided by the courts.

He can order people to issue marriage licenses, but until there is a definition of Marriage passed by the Kentucky Legislature to replace 402.005, then the licenses are not worth the paper they are printed on.

If there is no legal definition of Marriage, then there is no such legal institution.

SCOTUS literall screwed the pooch on this one.

13 posted on 09/05/2015 8:37:26 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (Tagline pending.)
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To: Ransomed

I am a ‘solemnizer’ of marriages. I had to apply to my state for that license.

This section you cite means that I must have my ‘solemnization license’ in order to sign a marriage certificate saying the couple has been legally wed.


14 posted on 09/05/2015 8:38:57 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True Supporters of our Troops PRAY for their Victory!)
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To: xzins

Thank you for the reply.

If you never applied for the license but performed marriages in your faith apart from any state recognition, what happens? Does the requirement to get a marriage license only apply to those who have already received the license to solemnize? If you give up the license to solemnize, does the requirement to get a marriage license still apply?

Freegards


15 posted on 09/05/2015 8:49:18 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: Ransomed; P-Marlowe; wagglebee
Formerly, most states had common law marriages. Most now do not. That is not an avenue for the church.

My sense is that a couple married exclusively in the church may be denied recognition of that marriage. Would the state do that?

I think they are vindictive. I think they would if they could.

In the Kentucky Marriage statute:

402.020 Other prohibited marriages.
(1) Marriage is prohibited and void:
(a) With a person who has been adjudged mentally disabled by a court of competent jurisdiction;
(b) Where there is a husband or wife living, from whom the person marrying has not been divorced;
(c) When not solemnized or contracted in the presence of an authorized person or society;

That underlined section suggests to me that a group such as the AMISH (a society?) can conduct their own marriages.

If so, then that kind of opening should also apply to other "societies". But I'm no lawyer, so my interpretation of that could be entirely wrong.

16 posted on 09/05/2015 9:14:28 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True Supporters of our Troops PRAY for their Victory!)
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To: xzins

OK, trying to understand here. Thank you for taking the time.

“My sense is that a couple married exclusively in the church may be denied recognition of that marriage”

If there is no state involvement, I assumed that is the way it is now. What happens to a pastor that does it this way and is fine with not having any state recognition?

“Would the state do that?”

As punishment for not accepting whatever the latest impossible version of state marriage, some have speculated that pastors/clergy wouldn’t be authorized or marriage licenses issued. Some pastors/clergy have given up the civil side of it altogether as a protest and teaching tool about their belief about marriage, but I don’t know if the state they happened to be in has the same rule about having to have a license before ‘solemnizing’ a marriage, or if such a rule applies at all in the first place. I recall one Orthodox priest in particular stopped acting as a representative of the state. I don’t know if he required the couple to then get a license after or what.

I have read that some pastors/clergy refuse to perform a marriage with no state involvement, and the reason they give is the rule about having to have a marriage license before solemnizing a marriage, so it makes me think there is something to it. But I have never heard of a pastor being fined or prosecuted or what if any punishment there is for doing it.

Freegards


17 posted on 09/05/2015 9:38:50 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: xzins

Well, 402.240 sounds like it would be applicable now.


18 posted on 09/05/2015 2:38:58 PM PDT by NetAddicted (Just looking)
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To: NetAddicted

Perhaps. Depends if the clerk is being held incommunicado.

As they have extensively pointed out, she is still the elected clerk of Rowan County.


19 posted on 09/05/2015 2:53:32 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True Supporters of our Troops PRAY for their Victory!)
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To: jpsb

Sometimes in the real world you do not have time to think about a problem and you have to respond.

When that 3am call comes in, you are in the White House, you may not have time to assemble a board meeting to come up with the best solution and look at pie charts.

You have to respond from the gut and quick wit. I do not know if he can do that. He has been in a board room surrounded by advisors a long time and not thinking on his own.

My money is still on Cruz with Trump pulling a second.


20 posted on 09/06/2015 3:40:47 AM PDT by eartick (Been to the line in the sand and liked it)
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