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To: A Formerly Proud Canadian
I still do not understand why, when all those oil companies spent multiple billions to build oil sand processing facilities in Fort McMoney (Fort McMurray), they did not build a massive refinery.

Do you think they would have an easier time building multiple refined products pipelines after the ongoing problem with Keystone XL?

Another problem is to be economically competitive with the US modern refineries, you have to recognize more than oil goes in and more than gasoline and diesel goes out.

Many major refineries in the Gulf Coast Region get hydrogen from the area hydrogen pipeline that does not exist. We have more petrochem plants in the area than we do refineries. And we have refineries that want their heavy oil.

Since we already refine more than we use, adding additional refinery capacity has to be competitive with shipping product internationally. Right this moment margins are high, but over the life of a refinery they are typically quite tight.

41 posted on 08/25/2015 10:34:55 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney

Unfortunately, Canada has been a primarily a ‘raw material’ economy for all of its existence. Yes, we are economically a ‘developed’ nation but the source of our economic strength, like Russia, has been the extraction of raw materials, NOT ‘value added’ production. As the old saying goes, “Give an American a dollar and he’ll either make two or go broke trying. Give a Canadian a dollar and he’ll put it in the bank.” A gross generalization, but it has much basis in fact. (Don’t know if this is true anymore, with O’Venal in charge however.)

Here’s the kicker. Several weeks ago, in Calgary we were paying $3.60USD/US gallon for Regular (87 octane) or $1.22CDN/litre. At the same time, some FReepers were saying gasoline cost them $2.40/gallon. From comments now, the price Stateside seems to have increased while here, after much protesting, the price has dropped to $1.13CDN/litre.

About two or three weeks ago, it was announced in the media that TransAlta, the largest publicly traded electrical generator in Canada, was being sued for $1.4 billion for price manipulation via the timing of their ‘forced’ shutdowns and turnarounds. It seems to me, a little more than a co-incidence that, while crude oil is the cheapest its been in many years, we were paying the same as we were two years ago when it was over $100USD/BBL. It seems to be more than a co-incidence that so many US refineries are having production issues when the price of crude is so low. Keep the gasoline supply tight by whatever means, so you can keep the pump price high.

While the US market is 10x bigger than Canada’s, based on population, and even larger based upon manufacturing, it sure seems Canadian gasoline prices are ‘massaged’ much more than US prices. That said, it seems that Big Oil is also ‘massaging’ the price in the US.

The depth of greed of so many executives of multinationals knows no bounds and I would put NOTHING past them including price manipulation. Politicians? The same thing!

In Canada, primarily Edmonton, Sarnia and Québec, we have a number of petrochemical plants and refineries, but though capacity is close to demand, capacity is not enough to fully supply our gasoline needs so gasoline is imported. The largest refinery is the Irving refincery on St John, NB, but it refines mostly Saudi crude. In a country that produces so much BOE, we should NOT have to import gasoline!


70 posted on 08/25/2015 12:40:29 PM PDT by A Formerly Proud Canadian (I once was blind but now I see...)
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