but only .001% as smart...
Posted on 08/17/2015 4:04:14 PM PDT by BenLurkin
The Police Foundation, a research group based in Washington, D.C., released a detailed report Monday on how Stockton police responded to the July 16, 2014, armed robbery of a Bank of the West branch, where three gunmen took three women hostage and fired at officers from a speeding SUV.
The group found that 32 officers unloaded more than 600 rounds during the hour-long rolling gun battle, which spanned three counties, 63 miles of highway and reached speeds of 120 mph. One of the hostages, Misty Holt-Singh, was killed when she was struck by 10 police bullets, authorities said. The two other hostages jumped or were thrown from the vehicle during the chase and survived.
...
Stockton Police Chief Eric Jones, who called for the independent review, held a news conference Monday to discuss the findings.
“We said we’ll accept responsibility, and that’s what I’m doing here today,” Jones said. “There’s not a man or woman in the Stockton Police Department that does not wish it had a different outcome.”
The report said that a few officers engaged in “sympathetic fire,” in which officers fired their weapons because others were shooting.
In some cases, officers opened fire while colleagues were in front of them. The report highlighted an example during the final standoff, in which one officer lay prone on the ground and did not shoot while an officer next to him, standing, fired “round after round.”
“‘What’s your target?’ the prone officer yelled, thinking he was missing something,” the report stated.
“‘The car!’ responded the officer,” according to the report.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
Should they just let armed bank robbers holding hostages run free?
What then when the robbers later shoot the hostage and roll the body out the back?
Then it would be the cops didn’t do their job and let them go.
Hostages shouldn't die at the hands of trigger happy cops.
And, to answer your first question, yes. If those bank robbers went free, and all the hostages survived, that would be a FINE outcome. There would be time enough to hunt track down the bank robbers. It's pretty unlikely that the bank robbers would kill the hostages, since doing so would make the law enforcement pursuit a thousand times more intense.
As for the second question, that's when you're right about it being a no-win situation, but shooting through hostages in order to take out bank robbers is an automatic LOSING situation. Given the amount of incoming rounds, it really couldn't have ended any other way than the way it did, given the police actions.
Hostage situations like this are what police snipers are for. Unfortunately, even then tragedies can occur with hostages. Here in my own home state of Florida a few years ago, a police sniper ended up killing a hostage who was being held in a barricaded house. Not exactly what they are supposed to do.
The bottom line is, hostages' lives are worth far more than any amount of recovered loot or prosecuted bank robbers, and anybody who believes otherwise doesn't belong in law enforcement. Knowing that there were multiple hostages in harm's way, the police should absolutely have shown restraint in the use of their weapons. Instead, the diametric opposite occurred.
Law enforcement in this instance did exactly the wrong thing, and as a result an innocent human being died due to being shot by police bullets...
Yeah, that’s what I get for replying before reading much. Foot-in-mouth is common in my household. :/
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This is what this is all about:
>> “Misty Holt-Singh” <<
Holt is a big time democrat, probably seeking revenge for the death of his own.
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Maybe they're thinking if they kill the hostages, the criminals won't have any leverage and will surrender. (/s, sorta).
Like just after 9/11 when people finally realized that sitting in their seats and waiting for negotiators wasn't going to get them off the plane alive. Maybe nothing would. Being take hostage isn't much of a future any more.
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Its Stockton, a state all by itself.
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i already know there has been at least one stop by a .50 from a chopper, about 3 months ago.
.50 goes through ANYthing!
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>> “ The police had that vehicle stopped and the bad guys completely surrounded; they were not going anywhere when the majority of the gunfire occurred.” <<
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Bonnie and Clyde re-make, Stockton style.
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There's another BIG discrepancy in this report. . . it says ". . .the hour-long rolling gun battle, which spanned three counties, 63 miles of highway and reached speeds of 120 mph." There is NO WAY there were three counties involved in 63 miles of highway. Tain't possible. Cities perhaps. Stockton, Lodi, and Galt are the cities I am aware were involved, and San Joaquin and Sacramento Counties. They reached Galt, which is just over the Sacramento County line, and turned around and came back down Hwy 99 and news reports said they stopped at a bar-b-que restaurant near Morada Lane a mile south of 8 Mile Road. . . where they were spotted by a County Sheriff's Deputy, if I recall correctly. Shots were exchanged. . . and IIRC, one of the hostages was tossed out as they peeled out, hit the Northbound on ramp of 99 toward Lodi. That's when the 120MPH was hit. They got off on one of the off ramps before Lodi, and got back on heading south, got off at 8 Mile and headed west. . . more high-speed chasing. . .
In any case, they never got into any third county at any time, that I know of, because they had no time nor the miles to do it.
Stanislaus County line is 42 miles south of Galt on 99, Contra Costa County is, as the crow flies, 25 miles west, but before you can make the trip you have to get either get to lodi, and then head west on Hwy 12. 12 miles to Lodi, 25 to Contra Costa County line, then back? Double 37 is 74. Or Tracy, 30 miles, and then another five to the county line. Or Hwy 4 to Discovery Bay. Nope, doesn't work. How about Calaveras County to the east? About the same distance to the county line. . . a bit more doable, but you still have to account for the trip to Galt in Sacramento county. . . so nope. LOL!
I have a problem with either the report or the reporting on the report.
And on FR one will nearly always get teased for it...
But apparently, police, rather than robbers, killed the hostage. With the contemporary paradigm in the justice system, many are taking revenge and committing planned suicide—a trend that judges of the past warned against. Even remedies in civil cases have become so outrageously expensive and sometimes unobtainable, that matters will more often be settled outside of courts.
Since many influential constituents want to move on toward an apathetic and fuedal society, we have no choice but to watch it go to its consequences for them.
And, that's why she's in Federal Prison for violating the rights of citizens under color of law?
Uh, no.
There is no responsibility on the part of cops, Federal, state or local. Sovereign immunity ensures they will always get off scot-free.
That picture always angers me. Words cannot describe.
There was a time when LEOs would have opted to take a safer route and keep the vehicle under surveillance until it ran out of gas or stopped - then worked at catching the bad guys w/o killing anyone else. I guess it’s “uneconomical and takes too damn long” to do it that way now - shoot the hell out of everything in sight and bury the bodies with an, “Oops - so sorry we killed your innocent loved one(s)”.
.30 caliber will stop a car. The plastic intake manifolds used for the last 10 years will shatter and stop the car, even with a smaller handgun.
I'll check it out.
The military teaches small arms fire discipline. Without it a firefight becomes a Chinese fire drill and the enemy perceives he is confronting undisciplined or inexperienced opponents.
From The Marine Rifleman Combat Skills Manual:
. . .Fire discipline is the state of order, coolness, efficiency, and obedience existing among Marines engaged in a firefight. It implies careful attention to instructions relative to theuse of the rifle, automatic rifle, and grenade launcher in combat and the exact execution of fireorders. Fire discipline is necessary for proper control, and upon this control depends the effectiveness of collective unit fire. Training in fire discipline starts with your first drill and continues throughout your military training. Alertness and the habit of obedience are essential.Fire discipline is maintained by leaders chiefly by their example of coolness and courage. . .
Rates of fire. A trained Marine rifleman can fire approximately 10 to 12 aimed shots per minute. Difficulties encountered in battle usually make a slower rate advisable. The maximum rate at which a rifleman or automatic rifleman should fire is determined by the ability to select distinct targets, set the sights, and squeeze off accurate shots. To exceed this rate of fire is to waste ammunition. . .
Ya think?
If we knew how few were on target that would be the bigger scandal.
The photo looks like Curly Howard.
There was one just like it a couple of years ago in San Jose. There were 23 SJPD cars in a slow speed chase in a residential neighborhood for about fifteen minutes. They ran the guy into a tree and started shooting. My wife's office partner lives across the street. Her kids say there were bullets all over the place and it was a miracle no innocents died. There was a YouTube showing the whole thing but that got pulled down pronto.
but only .001% as smart...
Curly was a genius all right.
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