Posted on 07/22/2015 7:11:35 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
I do realize that everyone from Charles Krauthammer to the recently escaped Mexican drug lord, El Chapo, is piling onto Donald Trump for his straight-forward remarks. Well, being the contrarian that I am, I am going to come down on the side of Mr. Trump!
Do I like him? No. Never have. I don't like his swagger, his cockiness, his arrogance. And I certainly don't care for that mop of comb-over fake hair. But they say the difference between egotism and self-assurance is the ability to produce. By any measure, he certainly wins that contest, both at home and abroad. True, he was born with a silver spoon, but he, and he alone, turned it into gold!
The first thing he did after declaring his presidential candidacy was to observe that Mexico was not sending their "best and brightest" across our southern border. Instead, in Mr. Trump's opinion, they are sending their gang members, their druggies, their serial felons and killers. Certainly, the tragic instance in San Francisco, and others elsewhere, have borne out the truth of his statement.
But the Honorable Senator John McCain (R-AZ) picked a fight by calling him, and others like him, "crazies" for criticizing Mexican immigration. I guess when you are worth $10 BILLION of your own making, you feel free to take issue when a politician calls you crazy!
So The Donald retaliated with the statement that getting yourself captured doesn't necessarily make you a hero. "He's a war hero because he was captured? I like people who weren't captured." With that, all hell broke loose in the mainstream media, as well as the Karl Rove dominated Republican establishment -- and the gaggle of GOP presidential wannabes.
But it might behoove us at this point in time to wonder just why would getting captured make you a hero? And why would remaining in captivity make you a military expert, and thus qualified to currently fill the roles of chairman of both the Senate Committee on Armed Services and Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs. And one might ask, how has his leadership in both these strategic positions of responsibility been working out for ya'?
Since Mr. Trump expressed his opinion, there is now a whole group of Vietnam veterans who have come forward with statements that highly question the Senator's preferential treatment as the son and grandson of Navy admirals, and his loyalty to his country while in captivity. Some even place him in the Jane Fonda category. Among the allegations are:
John McCain was a below average student, getting into the Naval Academy due to his father's and grandfather's influence and naval careers. Both were admirals. McCain was a boozing, smoking, womanizing party animal, graduating fifth from the bottom of his class at Annapolis.
John McCain's arms were broken not from being tortured by the North Vietnamese, as he has claimed, but when he improperly ejected from his plane over North Vietnam. According to his fellow prisoners, he was never tortured by the North Vietnamese.
John McCain's nickname among his North Vietnamese captors was "Songbird," as he was eager to tell them anything they wanted to hear to avoid torture. It is claimed that he made 32 propaganda videos for the North Vietnamese in which he blamed the United States for targeting schools, temples, orphanages, and hospitals. McCain has admitted to making one propaganda video.
And from a US Navy Aviator who served with McCain: "His "shoot down" was self-induced, as he DISOBEYED ORDERS and flew well below the 'floor,' getting himself shot down. There were several other jets on that particular mission and he was the only one shot down, because the others obeyed their orders."
But if you think these opinions of Senator McCain are somewhat negative, try this one by Theodore Shoebat, Communications Director for Rescue Christians, an organization that is on the ground in Muslim lands, rescuing Christians from persecution, and the author of two books, For God or For Tyranny and In Satan's Footsteps: The Source and Interconnections of all Evil.
"John McCain is a giant bag of scum; his mouth is a continual sewer of bile, his heart is a decayed rot of dung, his mind a river of filth, and his soul is amongst the damned. He is nothing but a murderous scumbag. His evils are so great, that the words of Trump don't even bother me. McCain is a demon incarnate. His service in Vietnam does nothing to justify the evils he has supported and pushed for."
The late Daniel Patrick Moynihan said it well: "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Mr. Trump expressed his opinion, twice, apparently based upon ample facts.
Was it the politically smart thing for him to do? Perhaps not, but isn't it refreshing, for once, to see a candidate for political office speaking his mind, instead of having his thoughts evaluated by a panel of political analysts before expressing them?
At least Trump is now branded as a no-holds-barred fighter, a type of leadership our country desperately needs at this time -- and could certainly have used in the recent Iranian nuclear negotiations. Can you imagine the outcome had he been there instead of "Swiftboat" Kerry?
The GOP needs for someone to break away from the pack of wilting violets currently running for the 2016 candidacy, and Trump may have just done it! As I write this, the liberally reluctant Washington Post poll shows Trump leading by 24%, followed by Walker at 13, Bush at 12, Huckabee at 8, Rubio at 7, etc., etc.
Fasten your seat belts folks, we ain't seen nothing yet!
Tell that to the families of the men missing in action that John berated, insulted, lied to, and caused to break down in Senate hearings.
A number of other people on that Senate panel were amazed by McCain’s actions. They found them hard to fathom.
John suffered two broken arms from ejecting improperly.
I don’t know how accurate the description on his citation is.
I do know that many of the MIA’s stories were never resolved.
We can’t read their full story.
I have a hard time imagining any of them fighting to keep John McCain’s information secret.
Fascinating information from all you guys. I truly appreciate it and love to hear your stories. However,I must admit to being somewhat confused, as there appears even among you all to be diametrically opposing viewpoints regarding McCain and his service and what really happened. Are there any reputable books written about McCain’s service years and did he really have some or more of his war records classified so no one can see them? If so, was any explanation ever given as to why?
BTW:
Thanks for the post. It was obviously reasoned to post it.
I don’t think TEA Party members are terrorists.
I don’t think Trump supporters are crazies.
John’s view on Conservatives are fairly well known.
John doesn’t have much of a problem trashing me.
Thanks for posting the links. I am bookmarking this and will read them tomorrow. Thanks again
Loathing the man politically and his after he got back deeds is one thing. Destroying a mans military record for political jollies is another and most of the post are debunked impossible same B.S. that gets repeated every blasted night!!!
I haven’t read the whole thread, so I’m not sure what you’re referencing.
My emphasis was that the government had information on around 475 MIAs from Vietnam. McCain was asked for that information, so the families could do their own work to find loved ones.
He promised once the hearings were over, the info would be released. It never was.
I’m not sure why everything was classified, but I did watch the video of another hearing committee member from back then explain that it was his and others’ understanding that there would be a big information dump.
He was amazed at how locked down the information was. He wasn’t in favor of it.
As for any classification of McCain related documents, I’m not aware of anything related to that, and if my wording was imprecise enough to make you think I did, I apologize.
I’ve had to piece together was I know. Some of the things said about McCain, I’m not comfortable with. He’s rather a stupid big-mouth though, and he’s done interviews and made comments that put some of his actions on the record.
In his book, he admits to being a bully on his grade school play-ground. He just liked to beat up the other kids.
This is a guy that was a vile character into his early childhood.
It hasn’t gotten any better.
“In his book, he admits to being a bully on his grade school play-ground. He just liked to beat up the other kids.
This is a guy that was a vile character into his early childhood.”
This ought to get rather interesting then, as Trump is no shrinking violet either, being rather pugnacious. It will be the battle of the titans, lol.
It hasn’t gotten any better.
There were hundreds of pilots that performed similarly.
McCain did nothing here that was extraordinary.
If every pilot or soldier or marine who went into battle against the enemy and emerged alive with mission accomplished were to be awarded a distinguished medal, then the medal would have little value other than to reflect that a person did his duty.
His citation lists no concrete actions of heroism above and beyond the call of duty. He flew a mission, dropped bombs and was shot down. And for that he receives a Distinguished Flying Cross. And he kept this citation sealed until very recently because he knew it would draw attention to his being given privileged treatment in the handing out of awards.
There were hundreds of thousands that served in Vietnam and they were brave and accomplished their missions, did their duty, without any one putting them for such a high award. And they never complained.
McCain was no ace pilot, he saved no lives, he performed no acts that were crucial to winning a military battle.
There are many brave service members that performed much more that McCain and they received mere service ribbons. But McCain receives high medals for what? For doing his duty?
Did he kill any kittens?
This is a childish Witch Hunt. At the most all it is accomplishing is dragging out memories for all other NAM POWS and having them relive their experiences if they were able to forget to start with. In that respect Trump should not have went there.
I know a POW who supported McCain in 2008 but I will not release any name to the Kooks looking to score a political hit and bugging the man. I don't like McCain politically or personally. I did not and would not ever vote for him. But that endorsement I saw by one of his fellow POWS tells me the Hanoi Hilton Internet generated Rumormill about his actions as a POW found on Kook Tin Foil Conspiracy Sites is very likely BS.
I tend to agree with your thoughts here.
John Kerry comes to mind. Some medal winners aren’t equal to the rest. I think that’s rather clear.
> “’m not sure why everything was classified, “
C’mon now. You can be fairly sure it was classified to cover up the truth about things involving McCain and others that they did not want to see the light of day. There is absolutely no technological or security risk in releasing the records from 50 years ago unless there were war crime material that would implicate the US Government or persons that are still alive today. And even then they could be redacted to avoid legal liability.
McCain was in the party that went to Hanoi to gather records the Vietnamese had on POWs including himself. He knows what the records say. He had to have had to turn them over to Pentagon bureaucrats and an order was obtained to have them sealed. Senator Bob Smith said the Pentagon bureaucrats could be prosecuted for their handling of POW and MIA matters and it lends plausibility as to why the records are classified.
A recent witness said the declassification of those records has now been delayed indefinitely, in other words forever. That can be reversed but it will take a President that is willing to get to the bottom of it.
Hostage, I haven’t studied the reasons for the classifications. What you say does make sense, but I haven’t seen other reasoned objections, so I don’t want to state it was McCain related.
It may be. I don’t have an axe to grind on it either way.
Bob Smith is the guy that I have seen marvel at the classifications. He was the one that said he expected to seen everything dumped, and then was shocked how little was.
He also said he knew the government had more information than it forked over.
McCain has been sitting and chairing important committees for decades. He has been an evil influence in Washington, D. C.
One thing is for sure, John McCain gets no more free passes when he attacks Trump and tens of thousands of fine Americans. As Mark Steyn wrote:
“Forty years ago, John McCain was a war hero. Since then he’s mostly been an asshole. The problem is you can’t out-asshole Donald Trump. McCain is in the Superbowl of assholery and hopelessly outmatched. He was doing assholery-as-usual last week, sneering at Trump’s supporters as “the crazies”.”
http://www.steynonline.com/7059/the-superbowl-of-superholes
You should read all of it because it references some really low class antics of McCain that are consistent with your sentiments and observations.
While Donald is no Ronald Reagan he may be what the country needs in terms of connection and tuning. Behind his veneer of bragging, arrogance, and New York City brashness is a man who I believe is afraid now for his country, who now believes “it’s time to get tough” in a way that New Yorkers can intonate with credibility. It’s not my cup of tea but events of today are not calling for tea and crackers, maybe more like strong whiskey drunk straight up. That would be Trump. I’m not sure a statesman is what we need; need someone more like a Harding.
I am not completely sold on Trump but this speech he gave in South Carolina moved me closer to the realization that he could be it although personally Cruz is who I identify with spiritually and intellectually:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj9xsrhJKOQ
He’s not eloquent, he’s rough but there’s a heart in him behind a facade of toughness. He’s a no nonsense guy who doesn’t need to kiss anybody’s behind or kiss any rings or bow before any Saudi Prince. He appears simply as an SOB American who will get a deal done and come out ahead. Importantly he seems trustworthy and self-correcting without ever apologizing. Maybe that’s what is needed now in America and a lot of people seem to think so.
And just two weeks I was thinking no way, not a chance. And yet he keeps belting them out of the park.
He said all the McCain stories about “songbird” are BS, and McCain served honorably. So much of the other is what communist reporters say he said. Who do you trust, a MOH-winning American or communist reporters?
The Spartan ethos would say, “Come back with your shield - or on it.”But if you’re going to hold someone else to that standard, you had better have a Spartan hero’s record yourself. I don’t - and Donald Trump doesn’t, either.
OTOH, tho the Bible says to defer to those who have suffered for the faith, it has not proved possible to live with that as an absolute - there have been instances of people with such credentials actually (gasp!) being wrong about important matters. Or so my pastor once informed me.
In that context, the deference John McCain earned passed its Sell By date long ago.
Long before he was accorded the Republican nomination for POTUS, in fact.
Sorry, but all the obfuscation does not hide the real truth.
There are a whole S-load of accusations that McCain was guilty of all sorts of misconduct as a prisoner.
There is not one iota of proof of any of it. In fact, two MOH winners who were there said it is not true.
Bottom line, McCain may be a political ass, but trying to run down his record as a POW is simply making false accusations about something we know to not be true.
Aren’t we better than that?
Go after his political record all day long, and I’ll join you, but simply repeating known lies is beneath us.
I loved this article ... especially the inside baseball about Juan McCain ... confirming that he’s been a scumbag for the last fifty (50) years ...
The hair is real, there’s video of someone (at Fox?) running her hand though it.
The epitome of resisting...........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I1hft2lNzs
Citation
While on a flight over North Vietnam, Capt. Sijan ejected from his disabled aircraft and successfully evaded capture for more than 6 weeks. During this time, he was seriously injured and suffered from shock and extreme weight loss due to lack of food. After being captured by North Vietnamese soldiers, Capt. Sijan was taken to a holding point for subsequent transfer to a prisoner of war camp. In his emaciated and crippled condition, he overpowered 1 of his guards and crawled into the jungle, only to be recaptured after several hours. He was then transferred to another prison camp where he was kept in solitary confinement and interrogated at length. During interrogation, he was severely tortured; however, he did not divulge any information to his captors. Capt. Sijan lapsed into delirium and was placed in the care of another prisoner. During his intermittent periods of consciousness until his death, he never complained of his physical condition and, on several occasions, spoke of future escape attempts. Capt. Sijan’s extraordinary heroism and intrepidity above and beyond the call of duty at the cost of his life are in keeping with the highest traditions of the U.S. Air Force and reflect great credit upon himself and the U.S. Armed Forces.
http://www.vietnamwar50th.com/family_keeps_legacy_of_medal_of_honor_recipient_lance_sijan/
If one wants to see an example of “duty, honor, country” or an example of self-sacrifice in fulfillment of mission, this book is the place to find it.
http://www.amazon.com/Into-Mouth-Cat-Story-Vietnam/dp/0393325482
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