Posted on 07/20/2015 6:13:58 AM PDT by Hostage
Towards the end of the video where John McCain's betrayals are exposed By Vietnam Vets And POWs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hr37eE0nO8&feature=youtu.be
are found the remarks of former Congressman Dornan's which are accurate and highly plausible but are missing a vital part that deconstructs John McCain's character and the myth about his 'heroism'.
Here's the context with reference in italics to the Hanoi Hilton's POW Commanding Officer Admiral James Stockdale in his own words:
Admiral (then a USN Captain) Stockdale and all other POWs inside the Hanoi Hilton confirmed the only way to come home early was if Admiral Stockdale granted permission; there was no other way around it. There were very few early releasees. One was a Seaman Apprentice named Douglas Hegdahl III who had spent night and day memorizing the names of 256 aviators into a rhyme and jingle. He was ordered to be an early release because he had those names to pass on to his debriefer when he got home.
McCain was never ordered to early release although the enemy offered it to him. He refused because of the standing order given by his POW Commanding Officer James Stockdale. Many have construed this refusal as of his own volition. He did obey the order and the consequence of not obeying the order was well-described by Congressman Dornan.
From Admiral Stockdale's book p.254:
There was little concern in any American's mind about the possibility of the Vietnamese throwing anybody out to defame him; we now knew the Vietnamese well enough to be sure that any early releasee would have to buy his way out by groveling on his knees before the Communists, bad-mouthing America. I gave their new release program a name: FRP -- the "Fink Release Program," and that was the way it was to be known. I also issued an order that started on its way to the other cell blocks of Las Vegas and with subsequent movers to the camps elsewhere in the city and outside it: "No early release; we all go home together".
John McCain's betrayals Exposed By Vietnam Vets And POWs:
No. It is not.
Admiral Stockdale’s orders were to all POWs. They were not specific to John McCain.
Unbelievable lack of comprehension.
Applicable to all means applicable to each meaning McCain was ordered to refuse offers of early release.
You’ve worn out your credit here.
Virtually every Veterans affairs group rate John McCain a solid D when it comes to his activities in helping veterans and he sets on, if not chairs the veterans committee in the senate. We all know his record on amnesty and the flip flop he did when the bill he and Edward Kennedy advanced and of course there is the continuous slight he aims at the Tea Party....other than that he's been great...sarc
I am no fan of McCain at all, but the only orders Trump was following was his doctors/fathers in order to avoid Vietnam. Trump is in the same ship as Bill Clinton when it comes to this topic
Found it in the comment section of a FOx news article. No link was given. This Marine had access to material and came forward to warn us. We all know McCain was establishments choice
XxxxxxxxxxxThe True Military Record of John McCain Written by an Active Marine
Uncategorized by admin
THE TRUE MILITARY RECORD OF JOHN MCCAIN WRITTEN BY AN ACTIVE MARINE.
9/03/08
McCain has never really earned anything. He is from a wealth pampered background and not fit to lead this nation.
A “war hero” doesn’t finished 894th out of 899 and still get stationed at a Navy champagne unit and promoted ahead of all but two of his 898 other classmates.
A “war hero” doesn’t crash three U.S. Navy jets out of sheer incompetence and ineptitude, including two during non-combat training sessions.
A “war hero” doesn’t get written up on drunk-and-disorderly, fraternization, disobeying orders, and insubordination charges more than two dozen times in less than three years.
A “war hero” doesn’t get promoted to squadron commander of the air field named after his own grandfather immediately after crashing his third airplane. A “war hero” doesn’t have all the military records that cover his time in Vietnam and all disciplinary actions against him censored and sealed “as a matte r of national security.” A “war hero” doesn’t get 28 medals awarded all after-the-fact “for bravery” for no other reason than being shot down and captured and then go on a celebrity public relations tour because he’s the son of two acclaimed Navy admirals. A “war hero” doesn’t repeatedly cheat on the wife who’s back in the states waiting for him, and then cheat on her more when he returns to the states, and then divorce and abandon her.
A “war hero” doesn’t systematically vote against every single pay and benefit increase for military and veterans throughout his entire political career, all the while claiming to be “the soldier’s Congressman,” and then take credit for the passage of a G.I. benefits bill he that voted AGAINST. A “war hero” McCain III lost jet number one in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay while practicing landings. He was knocked unconscious by the impact coming to as the plane settled to the bottom. McCain’s second crash occurred while he was deployed in the Mediterranean. “Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula,” Timberg wrote, “he took out some power lines [reminiscent of the 1998 incident in which a Marine Corps jet sliced through the cables of a gondola at an Italian ski resort, killing 20] which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral.”
McCain’s third crash three occurred when he was returning from flying a Navy trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game. Timberg reported that McCain radioed, “I’ve got a flameout” and went through standard relight procedures three times before ejecting at one thousand feet. McCain landed on a deserted beach moments before the plane slammed into a clump of trees. McCain’s fifth loss happened during his 23rd mission over North Vietnam on Oct. 26, 1967, when McCain’s A-4 Skyhawk was shot down by a surface-to-air missile. McCain ejected from the plane breaking both arms an d a leg in the process and subsequently parachuted into Truc Bach Lake near Hanoi. For 23 combat missions (an estimated 20 hours over enemy territory), the U.S. Navy awarded McCain a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars, two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service medals. “McCain had roughly 20 hours in combat,” explains Bill Bell, a veteran of Vietnam and former chief of the U.S. Office for POW/MIA Affairs — the first official U.S. representative in Vietnam since the 1973 fall of Saigon. “Since McCain got 28 medals,” Bell continues, “that equals out to about a medal-and-a-half for each hour he spent in combat. There were infantry guys — grunts on the ground — who had more than 7,000 hours in combat and I can tell you that there were times and situations where I’m sure a prison cell would have looked pretty good to them by comparison
The question really is how many guys got that number of medals for not being shot down.” For years, McCain has been an unchecked master at manipulating an overly friendly and biased news media. The former POW turned Congressman, turned U.S. Senator, has managed to gloss over his failures as a pilot by exaggerating his military service and lying about his feats of heroism. McCain has sprouted a halo and wings to become America’s POW-hero presidential candidate.
This article was written by an active, unnamed Marine. It was published by Gale Toensing founder of the Corner Report.com and she sent it to me. It is a true account of McCain’s real war record and evidence of his lack of fitness for the office of President.
Inform you of people who have done more damage to this nation in the last 40 years that McCain?
Are you serious? Oh I don’t know, lets just go with 1 off the top of my head.
Jimmy Carter - allowed radicalized Islam to take control of a nation state which allowed them to have a safe haven to operate and grow from for the past 40 years of growing Islamic Terror around the world.
Seriously, may not like McCain politically but far more damage has been done to this nation by far more people than this guy, demagogging needs to be saved for the leftists.
McKook is a tool. Any defamation of him or his “character” gets a pass from me.
> “Trump is in the same ship as Bill Clinton when it comes to this topic”
And by your logic ‘Saul of Tarsus’ should be stricken from the Holy Bible and never referred to as St. Paul? That’s an extreme example but it does illustrate that human beings do have the capacity to completely change their essence.
Regardless of his past, Donald Trump is now used as a vessel for truth.
I respect the truth from wherever it flows and right now it is flowing from Donald Trump.
Definitely something he doesn’t want to get out.
There is a huge difference between the guy disappoints me, the demagoguery and hyperbole of claiming he’s done more damage to the United States than anyone else in the last 40 years.
One is not the other. Want to disagree with McCain, fine, want to bash his politics fine, but the claim he’s done more harm than anyone to this nation in the last 40 years is nothing more than hyperbole, and if you believe it you are either politically ill informed, or just a fool.
Just to be clear, I am not out to defame McCain. I am aiming to slap the political establishment and their sycophants in the media.
“You don’t read very carefully do you?”
I read fine. The gist of your argument is that someone risking their life out of duty is not a hero. I say they are.
If you say they are too, then you agree that McCain did well in Vietnam. That he was a “hero” in Vietnam.
Trashing McCain for what he did AFTER Vietnam is fair game. I voted for his opponent in his last race (admittedly knowing McCain would win regardless). I plan to donate to any credible primary opponent this year. But attacking him for his time in Vietnam goes too far.
A comment is only a defamation if it is untrue. And, as you know, the MSM gets all weepy and sentimental about a creepoid like McKook or Kerry, until they get a real hero in their sights, and then they blast away.
> “I read fine.”
You claimed I called the soldiers who stormed Normandy Beach in WWII were not heroes. That is a lie. They are the ones that said it, not I. I said they were heroes and they corrected me.
No kidding.
> “McCain has certainly allowed the perception to persist that he chose to refuse early release out of his own sense of devotion to the other men and his personal integrity. Hence his alleged heroism. He never disavowed or corrected this perception or said, to my knowledge, that he was following an order from Stockdale.”
Your summary is spot on. Yours is precisely the point that McCain has done nothing to limit the hero worship that has sprung up around him. True heroes, if alive, would never allow such a thing.
I know people who have found stuff on the internet. Some of it may be actually true, some or all may be complete bunk. You, like them, have no idea if this piece that you have been peddling all over this forum is true, either in part or in whole. It just reinforces what you already think, and supports your political agenda, whatever it may be. Since McCain is not running, those in the middle of this pissing contest seem to come from several corners, mostly engaged in a circular firing squad of conservatives.
As I have spelled out elsewhere, much of this is bunk. Do you have another arrow in your quiver? Do you have another point to make?
I agree. McCain is a hero and this is all worthless talk. Trump was flippant and wrong. That was a stupid remark.
Where does it establish, in JMC’s own words, that he claimed his early release refusal was anything other than following orders.
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