[nickcarraway]

Are you aware McCain participated in 30 propaganda videos for the North?

Well, first of all, that was AFTER he risked his life for his country. That's why he ended up a prisoner.

As to his behavior as a prisoner, yes, it was bad. But that's nothing new. Some prisoners are heroic. But not all of them are. China developed highly effective methods of brainwashing during the Korean War. it would be nice if none of our service men were vulnerable to that, but unfortunately that's not possible. We put these people in risky circumstances and some of them are going to crack. It's nothing to be proud of, but we have to accept some will break. McCain was tortured and given poor medical care. Would anyone want to change places with him.

The fact is he completed his mission at the risk of his life and/or freedom. He was imprisoned for over five years for his country. He was offered to be released because of who his father was and declined, because of the propaganda it would give the communists.

This is bigger than just McCain. There were plenty of others in similar circumstance in that and other wars.

I deplore McCain's treatment of veterans, but attacking his service is no way to rectify what he did.

[Artcore]

Trashing Trump and defending McCain...just wow!

And you have the nerve to call those of us supporting Trump RINOs. You are an abject hypocrite!

[TomasUSMC]

The fact is he completed his mission at the risk of his life and/or freedom. He was imprisoned for over five years for his country. He was offered to be released because of who his father was and declined, because of the propaganda it would give the communists.
///////
EX ACT LEEE

I AM ALL FOR TRUMP, but he needs to fix his mistakes. He is acting like a spoiled rich brat bully and hypocrite ...which..... is maybe his strategy..... take him with warts and all, if not - no biggie,
he’s still got 10 B.

[DoughtyOne]

 Are you aware McCain participated in 30 propaganda videos for the North?

Well, first of all, that was AFTER he risked his life for his country. That's why he ended up a prisoner.

Okay, look, I'm going to argue my point but don't take it personally.  I don't have anything against you.  

There is every reason to believe McCain lost his aircraft because he was unfit to be flying in the first place.  He didn't qualify for flight school.  He graduated around 894th out of 899 people in his Annaplolis class.  This would have prevented him from being a flight candidate.  Despite this he was appointed before all but two of his classmates.

During training he was a terrible screw-off.  He went out late, partied a lot, and didn't apply himself to the training.  He flew one aircraft into the drink, and lied about why.  His engine was checked out and there was nothing wrong with it.  His flight instructor was over-ruled and McCain got his passing markes for only completeing 1/3rd to1/2 of the prescribed carrier landings to be certified.

This put his crews, him, and the operations he participated in at risk.  That's not a war hero in my book.

As to his behavior as a prisoner, yes, it was bad. But that's nothing new. Some prisoners are heroic. But not all of them are. China developed highly effective methods of brainwashing during the Korean War. it would be nice if none of our service men were vulnerable to that, but unfortunately that's not possible. We put these people in risky circumstances and some of them are going to crack. It's nothing to be proud of, but we have to accept some will break. McCain was tortured and given poor medical care. Would anyone want to change places with him.

Those who served with McCain don't back up your accounting of his time at the Hanoi Hilton.  He made an agreement by his own admisstion that assured him of favorable treatment just days into his stay there as a POW.

The fact is he completed his mission at the risk of his life and/or freedom. He was imprisoned for over five years for his country. He was offered to be released because of who his father was and declined, because of the propaganda it would give the communists.

Because of the propaganda value?  Are you serious?  The guy completed over 30 propaganda videos for the North and possibly as high as 38, them knowing he was the son of a big-wig.  You honestly think McCain gave a rat's patoot about propaganda value?

This is bigger than just McCain. There were plenty of others in similar circumstance in that and other wars.

I am willing to agree that others don't say completely mute.  They didn't give up the routes to deliver the hits on North Vietnam, and McCain did.  He admitted it.  It is rather persuasively argued he cost our airmen's lives, caused the shut down of certain delivery routes hurting our war efforts, and allow Vietnam to avoid retribution.

I deplore McCain's treatment of veterans, but attacking his service is no way to rectify what he did.

I don't think McCain's record stands up to scrutiny, and I'm not the only person to think this.

As for veterans, yes he did basically take a dump on them.  He also took a dump on at least 1,000 MIAs in Vietnam, refusing to ever release information on them.  Even eventually declaring only about 450 MIAs to be valid, he refused to release information on them either.

You may think I'm a bit unfair to John, but what I am doing to him is far less costly than what he saw fit to do to literally thousands of other POWs in Vietman,.

He did it by not letting anything stand in his way, giving his captors MFN status without any penalites or requirements whatsoever.

Go ahead and defend the guy.  What he single-handedly did, was thousands of times worse than what Jane Fonda accomplished.  Think about that for a while.

[DoughtyOne]

Nick, I just found this video. I have to go out, but I think it’s a rather interesting one on the topic from what I could tell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMcYqtayU7c