Posted on 07/19/2015 9:59:18 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum
Was McCain the *only* bad pilot at the Hanoi Hilton? IIRC here were more than a few Air Force,Navy and Marine aviators there with him.In fact,there was at least one lower rank sailor (E-2 or E-3 IIRC) who was there.*He* was blown off the deck of a carrier in the Gulf of Tonkin.Was he a bad *swimmer*?
And let us know the next time you strap yourself in a cockpit, catapult off an aircraft carrier, and then fly into the heaviest anti aircraft fire the world had ever seen.
Trump and Franklin aren’t the only loud mouth morons around.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain#Prisoner_of_war
John McCain's capture and subsequent imprisonment began on October 26, 1967 He was flying his 23rd bombing mission over North Vietnam when his A-4E Skyhawk was shot down by a missile over Hanoi [34][35]McCain fractured both arms and a leg ejecting from the aircraft,[36] and nearly drowned when he parachuted into Trúc Bạch Lake [34] Some North Vietnamese pulled him ashore, then others crushed his shoulder with a rifle butt and bayoneted him [34] McCain was then transported to Hanoi's main Hỏa Lò Prison, nicknamed the "Hanoi Hilton" [35]
Although McCain was badly wounded, his captors refused to treat his injuries, beating and interrogating him to get information; he was given medical care only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a top admiral [37] His status as a prisoner of war (POW) made the front pages of major newspapers [38][39]
McCain spent six weeks in the hospital while receiving marginal care [34] By then having lost 50 pounds (23 kg), in a chest cast, and with his hair turned white,[34] McCain was sent to a different camp on the outskirts of Hanoi[40] in December 1967, into a cell with two other Americans who did not expect him to live a week [41] In March 1968, McCain was put into solitary confinement, where he would remain for two years [42]
In mid-1968, John S McCain Jr was named commander of all U S forces in the Vietnam theater, and the North Vietnamese offered McCain early release[44] because they wanted to appear merciful for propaganda purposes,[45] and also to show other POWs that elite prisoners were willing to be treated preferentially [44] McCain turned down the offer; he would only accept repatriation if every man taken in before him was released as well Such early release was prohibited by the POW's interpretation of the military Code of Conduct: To prevent the enemy from using prisoners for propaganda, officers were to agree to be released in the order in which they were captured [34]
In August 1968, a program of severe torture began on McCain [46] He was subjected to rope bindings and repeated beatings every two hours, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery [34][46] Further injuries led to the beginning of a suicide attempt, stopped by guards [34] Eventually, McCain made an anti-American propaganda "confession" [34] He has always felt that his statement was dishonorable, but as he later wrote, "I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point I had reached mine "[47][48] Many American POWs were tortured and maltreated in order to extract "confessions" and propaganda statements;[49]virtually all of them eventually yielded something to their captors [50] McCain subsequently received two to three beatings weekly because of his continued refusal to sign additional statements [51]
McCain refused to meet with various anti-war groups seeking peace in Hanoi, wanting to give neither them nor the North Vietnamese a propaganda victory [52] From late 1969 onward, treatment of McCain and many of the other POWs became more tolerable,[53]while McCain continued actively to resist the camp authorities [54] McCain and other prisoners cheered the U S "Christmas Bombing" campaign of December 1972, viewing it as a forceful measure to push North Vietnam to terms [48][55]
Altogether, McCain was a prisoner of war in North Vietnam for five and a half years He was released on March 14, 1973 [56] His wartime injuries left him permanently incapable of raising his arms above his head [57]
Sorry if I don’t recognize your authority in determining who is or isn’t a “war hero”.
But for Trump or Franklin to even broach the subject shows that they are both pathetic clowns, moral cretins and intellectual ciphers.
McQueeg graduated at the very bottom of his Naval Academy class. The only way he got there in the first place was because of his Admiral daddy. He crashed two planes before he even made it out of training. The only reason he didn’t get kicked out then was because of his Daddy. He was shot down by a SAM. Vietnam pilots routinely evaded SAM’s, but he wasn’t a good enough pilot to do it because he was only there because of his Daddy, not because of his qualifications.
So,IOW,every O-3...O-4...O-5 and O-6 (Air Force,Navy *and* Marines) at the Hanoi Hilton was a lousy pilot? As I've stated above I have absolutely *no* tales of exceptional skill...or *any* level of bravery...to tell when describing my time in uniform.You,OTOH,clearly do...given the swagger of your comments.
Perhaps you'd like to share them with us.
Trump went bankrupt half a dozen times. He inherited a quarter of million rental units in New York City, and thinks he is a business genius.
I am not commenting on McCain’s qualification as war hero. I am commenting on Trump’s qualification to pass judgment on who is a war hero, or his seriousness as political leader. No serious leader would have made the kind of statement that Trump did. It shows how shallow, impulsive and unqualified he is for anything other than the role of superannuated megalomaniac freak show attraction.
I'd have to do more research on Trump's past before I came to any firm conclusions about *his* comment.But I know *more* than enough about Franken to agree with you 200% about *him*.
What McCain did required guts. No doubt about that. What Trump did requires a complete lack of any sense of decency. No doubt about that.
The key thing here is not whether Al Franken said it, or whether anybody else ever did, or even whether it’s true or not.
And, to be completely open, I wished DT could find a gracious way to climb down a little bit while preserving his manhood, to show who’s the better man.
But that does not matter now, because the eye of Sauron has turned on Trump, and whatever the truth is, and whoever has said worse things in the past, they will ask him 24/7 about this until they break him or he breaks them.
All politicians on our team (I say team because I can’t tell how many are on our side) - all of them inevitably fold under the gaze of Sauron. It’s important, if Trump wants the job, that he not do so.
It is not about my record or your record. It is about the difference between a prisoner of war and a war hero. Getting shot down and captured is never an act of extraordinary skill or bravery. See my tag line.
And it is standard practice in the corporate world to buy failing companies for the purpose of declaring bankruptcy to restructure them and turn them into viable companies.
Pretty awkward statements all around, but they both have a point: we used to celebrate those who accomplished heroic things in service to others. Now we build monuments to victims, because the bigger a victim you are, the more you’re a hero.
It is a perverse and defeatist trend.
Trump never filed for personal bankruptcy. That is error #1 in your post. His 4 business units from his empire filed for bankruptcy.
I give credit to anyone who rebounds from failures, corrects his path, and doubles down with more effort.
Which is why Trump is worth 5000% more than his inheritance.
I saw it.And unless I'm *very* much mistaken you *do not* have the training or experience to make such a statement.Come back to us when you're MOS certified to pilot an F-18 or an F-22 and we'll talk.Until then...oh,never mind!
I am unimpressed with his business acumen. His bankruptcies were the result of his own bad judgment, his wealth the result of his inheritance and his willingness to buy political favor. His is the least admirable type of businessman.
Actually McCain, by your reasoning, never was shot down. His aircraft was.
As Juan McQueeg is the least-admirable kind of “war hero.”
The issue is not my record because I never claimed to be a war hero. The issue is difference between a prisoner of war and a war hero.
May be your education level is not high enough to understand the difference.
Hahaha grasping at straws, are we?
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