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To: lbryce

You are quite correct that my “arguments” are not very thorough. In fact, I wasn’t making an extensive theological argument at all. I’ve tried that before and it usually doesn’t acomplish too much.

My reason for responding was just to say that, though it often appears that we are completely alone, and that that cruelty and evil often win the day, that my faith in God says, no, there IS more to this life than we can physically see or perceive.

I know that, to some, such a faith seems wishful thinking, and in all honesty, I can understand, when faced with the awful realty that smacks us in the face everyday with stories of horror happening here at home and around the world, that some would balk at the idea that there was some “God” behind the scenes, working history toward a meaningful purpose or ending. I guess my historical examples were only meant to point out that improbable things happen that defy the odds. One could say it was mere chance, but I choose to believe that there was more to it than that. My proof? I can’t prove it.

I mentioned the Pilgrims, and I would be the first to say that I In no way meant to diminish the terrible siuffering they endured or the many other early colonists who suffered as much, yet didn’t make it as they did. But, I think from a human viewpoint, many of them shouldn’t have made it, but did. Why? I cannot answer that question. I know many of them had an enduring faith in God that would put me to shame, yet they never gave up their faith. I believe that God helped them through it. Why He didn’t do it for everyone? Again, I cannot give an answer.

As to the Jewish people, I think it is nothing short of miraculous that they do still exist. I believe it is because God has a purpose for them. Why all the suffering? Again, I cannot give that answer, but I still believe that they belong to Him. My evidence? I guess because they still are.

I am glad that you are not atheistic, but rather agnostic. At least you are open to the idea and are willing to discuss it. Perhaps God will help you find Him at some point. I pray that He will. I wish I were a better witness for you and could give better answers to your legitimate questions. I pray you will run across someone who can.


40 posted on 07/07/2015 11:05:31 PM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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To: rusty schucklefurd
Well, you know, I am rather well versed in all subjects related to Orthodox Judaism having been raised in a Hasidic Orthodox home, gone to Orthodox yeshivas, am descendants of some very influential rabbis who were pioneers in kaballah. So when i say i am agnostic it sounds somewhat misleading as if I'm agnostic because I wasn't subjected to spiritual or divine subject matters. I'm agnostic for the very reasons my father force fed me the dogmatic beliefs he tried to instill in me and i have some very compelling arguments why there is no God but again the mysterious of life I've been much too intensely indoctrinated I'm also rather fluent in Yiddish but all of this are subjects that I rarely share but have done so out of wanting to be fair as you yourself have revealed some personal matters about yourself

So while I have very strong feelings against the existence of God not just feelings but very much knowledge of the Old Testament and Talmud that provides access, validation for my lack of belief,ambiguity about God, there is definitely strange forces in the physical and spiritual Universes that keeps me from being an absolute denier, as you brought up originally. As far as ever going so far a ever being a zealot or even a believer, in the manner in which the Orthodox demand, that's never going to happen.. I hardly give God any credence,99.9% attributable to the quality of life I've been forced to endure and can not accept any God instilling into me the life he did without getting to a certain degree enraged. so, a lot of my sense of non-believing arises out of the circumstances I've struggled to overcome.

43 posted on 07/08/2015 12:10:21 AM PDT by lbryce (OBAMA:Misbegotten, GodForsaken, bastard offspring of Satan and Medusa)
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