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To: rusty schucklefurd
You bring up some interesting points. 1.You've relegated the fortunate outcome to circumstances that loomed disastrous to a noble power that otherwise might be called a deity,Supreme Being, God. you say it as a matter of fact but you have no license, no right to make such a giant leap. There are a myriad of empirical reasons why those in danger managed to survive.You were not there to ignore other events that may have contributed to their survival and simply say it was God.

2. You mention the survival of the Pilgrims. But there are untold number of incidences whereby individuals every bit as God-fearing that did not, most of which are lost to history. So, I can not accept your comment as irrefutable.

3.Come on. You're an adult. "America should have lost the battle of Midway". What kind of argument is that? They should have won the battle of Midway, if the circumstances they found fortuitous was there for them to win. As the Americans attacked, the Japanese were loading their aircraft onto the flight deck at the same time and were able to destroy them all due to indecisiveness of the Japanese Command structure. It's all a matter of circumstances o the physical kind, nothing supernatural

4. I've often wondered why Jews have managed to survive all this time.If you pro-rated the number of Jews at the time of the Temple to today's population there should be 200 million Jews. Where did they go? Certainly we know. they were slaughtered throughout the centuries. But I figured out the answer validated by a Jewish professor at NYU. The Non-Jews never allowed Jews to live among them. Keeping them segregated, ghettoized gave them the longevity they otherwise never would have had. Proof is, Jews having moved to China prior to WW2 had all but disappeared. Why?

Because the Chinese never segregated them. They lived among the Chinese, lost their identity, intermarried and disappeared, exactly what is happening to the Jewish people in america. Intermarriage, freedom to live anywhere in America all contribute to the loss of Jews. did you know that Reform Judaism is for all intents and purposes extinct? The demographers found that there are no third generation Reform Jews.By the time they hit the third generation they are so assimilated they don't consider themselves as Jews.

But there still is hope for the world and even for the both of us.

You see, I am agnostic, not atheist.

I absolutely agree WITH YOU that
There is more going on than what we can only see, hear, feel, smell, and taste. There is more going on than what man does with military might and strength.

So, there is still yet hope for me, mankind. :-)

39 posted on 07/07/2015 10:15:52 PM PDT by lbryce (OBAMA:Misbegotten, GodForsaken, bastard offspring of Satan and Medusa)
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To: lbryce

You are quite correct that my “arguments” are not very thorough. In fact, I wasn’t making an extensive theological argument at all. I’ve tried that before and it usually doesn’t acomplish too much.

My reason for responding was just to say that, though it often appears that we are completely alone, and that that cruelty and evil often win the day, that my faith in God says, no, there IS more to this life than we can physically see or perceive.

I know that, to some, such a faith seems wishful thinking, and in all honesty, I can understand, when faced with the awful realty that smacks us in the face everyday with stories of horror happening here at home and around the world, that some would balk at the idea that there was some “God” behind the scenes, working history toward a meaningful purpose or ending. I guess my historical examples were only meant to point out that improbable things happen that defy the odds. One could say it was mere chance, but I choose to believe that there was more to it than that. My proof? I can’t prove it.

I mentioned the Pilgrims, and I would be the first to say that I In no way meant to diminish the terrible siuffering they endured or the many other early colonists who suffered as much, yet didn’t make it as they did. But, I think from a human viewpoint, many of them shouldn’t have made it, but did. Why? I cannot answer that question. I know many of them had an enduring faith in God that would put me to shame, yet they never gave up their faith. I believe that God helped them through it. Why He didn’t do it for everyone? Again, I cannot give an answer.

As to the Jewish people, I think it is nothing short of miraculous that they do still exist. I believe it is because God has a purpose for them. Why all the suffering? Again, I cannot give that answer, but I still believe that they belong to Him. My evidence? I guess because they still are.

I am glad that you are not atheistic, but rather agnostic. At least you are open to the idea and are willing to discuss it. Perhaps God will help you find Him at some point. I pray that He will. I wish I were a better witness for you and could give better answers to your legitimate questions. I pray you will run across someone who can.


40 posted on 07/07/2015 11:05:31 PM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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