British defence secretary warns of Russia’s danger to Baltic states

It would not surprise me at all if Putin were to attack the Baltics this spring.

I agree. And I won’t be surprised if the FReeper Putinista platoon insist that Latvia was about to attack Russia and Putin saved the day.

We’ll hear how the Riga Junta was minutes from slaughtering every last Russian before sexy Vlad rode in on a Unicorn.

Are we really going to start WWIII over eastern Estonia which is about 90% Russia anyways?

Is NATO really going to rally and send troops (invoking Article 5) to “protect” any of the Baltic States?

The answer is no.

Obama wouldn’t survive a dozen American military deaths - let alone thousands.

The lessons of Serbia are not lost on the Russians.

“Are we really going to start WWIII over eastern Estonia which is about 90% Russia anyways?”

Apparently you failed to read the memo. Putin has already begun the next world war, and he already refers to it as World War IV. Putin considers the Cold War to have been World War III. Putin threw a new world war, and NATO tried not to attend the party. Unfortunately, Putin will not accept no for an answer from NATO, and insists NATO must attend and tolerate the Russian offensives in World War IV while remaining impotent until it is too late to respond to the Russian aggressions without crippling injuries.

The problem is that people were watching in Ukraine as the EU and NATO was moving in, right up to Russia’s border and they finally got a response. It was always lunacy to pretend that would go unchallenged. Everyone is acting shocked that a move to literally place NATO formations directly on the Russian border was seen as a hostile eastward move.
But the Baltics are EU and NATO, and have been for over 10 years. Nobody is coming to invade them.
That’s just war drum talk designed to separate the US taxpayer from his money.

Russia hasn’t even shown a desire to move to unseat the Kiev coup or to install a different government in Ukraine.

Yet the Polocks and Baltics are doing everything they can to act like the Red Army is about to roll through. Lithuania a couple of days ago said they might Blockade Kaliningrad.
Right now the northern route is used to supply, and now to move equipment out of Afghanistan. That is rail from the ‘stans, through Russia, to Riga Latvia.
The Baltics do any blockades, they block us too.
Its just getting retarded.
And all to support the EU friendly western Ukrainians who seized power.
All of this could have been avoided had they simply waiting for the scheduled 2015 election. But its more fun to destroy the beautiful city Kiev had become, and kill thousands, have a draft, and displace hundreds of thousands.
Guess you gotta keep Brussels bankers happy.

I can see how the EU wanted to move into Ukraine to gain control of gas lines, to increase their trade area, and to include the EU leaning western areas.

What I do not see, is how any of that furthers America’s economic or security interests. I couldn’t care less who rules Lviv, an EU friendly leader, or a Russian one.

And furthermore, had the western Ukes simple left Ukraine, I would have supported them 100%. That area could be more European in character. But by the same token, Donetsk, Slavyansk, and Crimea have long deep ties to Russia.
Ukraine really should split.
When either side wins in their elections, they give the finger to the other region. Both sides have done it.
Hell, the Russians poisoned the western friendly candidate once.
Then the westerns gained power and started punitive policies towards the east. When the coup came to power, the first move they made was against Russian speakers in the east. Kiev was still in flames, and that was their very first move. And it isn’t mentioned much, but he EU trade deal was going to devastate the east. 70% of the manufacturing was in the east, and that was overwhelmingly sent to Russia. Aviation and coal. Neither of which was going to be bought by the EU. That’s why the Eastern Ukes liked Russian trade.

The sad thing, is that the EU with its trade was not going to open its borders for Ukrainians to travel or immigrate anyway.

The answer was always for there to be a split, or for Ukraine to have free trade with any nation. The EU didn’t need an agreement, all they had to do is declare all trade with Ukraine was duty free, and then they could have watched the trade unfold regardless of any deal they had with Russia.
But the EU was about expanding its control, not trade.

“I can see how the EU wanted to move into Ukraine to gain control of gas lines, to increase their trade area, and to include the EU leaning western areas.”

The EU is not an entity which can “move” into the Ukraine or anywhere else. It is a group of highly contentious nations who can seldom agree on much of anything for very long except the desire to maintain some sense of peace, even at the expense of independence, liberty, and freedom. Unless the EU acts to oppose the offensive activities of Putin’s Russia, the EU stands to lose the peace they so ardently desire along with their independence, liberty, and freedom. For once the Russians gain control of their nations separately, Russia will either systematically eliminate the non-Russian people and/or use them as cannon fodder in the next set of Russian offensives or as forced labor until they have been made extinct within the Russian occupation zones. Russia’s nationalists want far more than to simply rule over the conquered people as the Soviet Union once did. Instead, the nationalist Russia wants to ultimately accomplish many of the same aims as Hitler’s Germany and his visions for a new Germania. Russia’s nationalists want a New and Great Russia with little tolerance for the continued existence of non-Russian people, language, and culture. In this context, the EU interest in the Ukraine is nothing less than mutual survival in the face of another form of aggressive and genocidal Russian imperialism.

“What I do not see, is how any of that furthers America’s economic or security interests. I couldn’t care less who rules Lviv, an EU friendly leader, or a Russian one.”

The international respect for some semblance of the rule of law respecting the territorial integrity of non-aggressor states is essential for the peaceful maintenance of international peace and welfare. The Soviet Union - Russia along with Iraq and Argentina have been the principal violators of this post WWII effort to avoid war and promote peace through the rule of law rather than the rule of war. LVIV and the Ukraine are simply the immediate objects of the effort to end wars of conquest and genocide. Unfortunately, the Russian nationalists are determined to engage in the very kind of wars of conquest the Western allies of WWI and WWII fought and sacrificed to end once and for all time.

“And furthermore, had the western Ukes simple left Ukraine, I would have supported them 100%. That area could be more European in character. But by the same token, Donetsk, Slavyansk, and Crimea have long deep ties to Russia.
Ukraine really should split.”

The Ukrainians are fighting for survival of their persons and their national sovereignty. The Russians displaced millions of the Ukrainian inhabitants they had killed and starved to death in the Holodomor. Now the Russian nationalists want to resume the conquest of the Ukraine and other nations with the intention of exterminating the native populations and cultures as they re-colonize the conquered Western naitons with Russians and ethnic Russians. Therefore, splitting the Ukraine will only accomplish a speedier Russian offensive upon the remaining Ukrainian territories and the speedier Russian genocide of the Ukrainian people, culture, and language. In other words, counseling the division of the Ukraine into Russian and Ukrainian zones is only going to result in an earlier Russian conquest and murder of the rest of the Ukrainian nation and its people.

“When either side wins in their elections, they give the finger to the other region. Both sides have done it.
Hell, the Russians poisoned the western friendly candidate once.
Then the westerns gained power and started punitive policies towards the east.”

That is a false representation of reality. Despite the terrible role the Russians played in the deliberate killing and starvation of the Ukrainians in their own homeland during the Holodomor, the Ukrainians have generally integrated the ethnic Russians into Ukrainian society to the point where most of the Ukrainian leadership positions continued to be dominated by ethnic Russian language Ukrainians. Given the chance to choose between being Ukrainian citizens or Russian citizens, a substantial majority of the ethnic Russians in the Ukraine volunteered to remain as Ukrainian citizens and chose to make their Ukrainian nation independent of Russia and the Russian Commonwealth of Independent States. Russia now seeks to use a minority of ethnic Russian Ukrainians and an overwhelming armed force of Russians from Russia to conquer these ethnic Russian Ukrainians and ethnic Ukrainians in the Ukraine whether they like it or not. Under the mortal threats posed by these Russians inside and outside of the Ukraine, the Ukrainians have no choice but to take action in defense of themselves. So, using the argument that both sides are at fault is a false representation which serves to punish the Ukrainians for attempting to survive the attacks, internal and external, which they are being subjected to by the Russians.

“When the coup came to power, the first move they made was against Russian speakers in the east.”

The statement claiming a coup was committed is a blatant lie originating in the Russian black propaganda. The only coups which occurred in the Ukraine were those which were committed by Yanukovych and Russia for a number of years before the Maidan protests. The Ukrainian Verkhovna Rada did not commit a coup to oust Yankovych and were in fact restoring constitutional government after Yanukovych committed a number of unconstitutional acts, including his unconstitutional abandonment of his presidential office and defection to Russia, and leadership of a foreign Russian supported insurrection in the Ukraine. Putin and Russia planned the conquest of the Ukraine before the Maidan protests were underway, much less before Yanukovych contacted the Verkhovna Rada (parliament) and notified its leaders of his second resignation from the office of the President. Putin even ordered military campaign medals for the Russian invasion of the Ukraine to be manufactured before Putin’s intelligence agent and puppet, Yanukovych, resigned as President of the Ukraine. Anyone who still attempts to push forward Putin’s lie about a coup in Kiev by the Ukraine’s lawfully elected parliament must be dismissed as a willful disseminator of alse propaganda upon the behalf of Putin and the other criminals in the Kremlin today.

“Kiev was still in flames, and that was their very first move.”

On the contrary, it was the Russians in the Ukraine who attacked and seized the Ukrainian government offices, tortured, and murdered Ukrainian government officials and opposition civilians, including ethnic Russians as well as ethnic Ukrainians.

“And it isn’t mentioned much, but he EU trade deal was going to devastate the east. 70% of the manufacturing was in the east, and that was overwhelmingly sent to Russia. Aviation and coal. Neither of which was going to be bought by the EU. That’s why the Eastern Ukes liked Russian trade.”

You seem to neglect the obvious fact the EU volunteered to become dependent upon Russian oil and natural gas supplies and was more than happy to help Russia improve trade relations with Russia. So, that accusation is yet another false claim used as black propaganda. Instead, it is Russia which is cutting off trade with the Ukraine and other former Soviet Republics as part of using trade as a weapon aginst the Ukraine and the NATO allies.

“The sad thing, is that the EU with its trade was not going to open its borders for Ukrainians to travel or immigrate anyway.”

You misrepresent the situation by failing to note the Ukrainian government had not yet changed the laws necessary to permit such normalization of immigration regulations.

“The answer was always for there to be a split, or for Ukraine to have free trade with any nation. The EU didn’t need an agreement, all they had to do is declare all trade with Ukraine was duty free, and then they could have watched the trade unfold regardless of any deal they had with Russia.”

Wrong again, because Putin and Russia planned the conquest of the Ukraine before the Maidan protests and no matter what the Ukraine did or did not do with respect to any trade agreements. Just like Russia’s phony ceasefire agreements, Putin and Russia never had any intentions of respecting the Ukrainian government’s sovereign rights to trade or not trade with whom they chose to trade.

“But the EU was about expanding its control, not trade.”

What the EU “was about” or was not about had no effect and no bearing on Putin and Russia’s efforts to reconquer the Ukraine and reconquer a number of other presently independent nations in Europe and in Asia. Representations to the contrary amount to nothing more than the dissemination of Putin’s black propaganda and disinformation.