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Bodies and Debris Found in Search for AirAsia Plane, Rescue Teams Say
NYTimes ^ | 12-30-2014 | Thomas Fuller

Posted on 12/30/2014 12:29:43 AM PST by tcrlaf

Indonesian rescue teams said Tuesday that they had found bodies and what appeared to be debris from the AirAsia plane that vanished shortly after taking off from the airport here on Sunday.

Members of search teams told the Indonesian news media that they had spotted what appeared to be suitcases, life vests and aircraft debris. Indonesian television showed a rescuer descending from a helicopter toward a bloated corpse floating in the sea.

The debris was found in the Karimata Strait off the coast of Borneo. Search teams also spotted what appeared to be a larger piece of the fuselage of the plane, which was operated by the Indonesian affiliate of AirAsia.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: airasia; crash; debris; indonesia; qz8501
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To: cherokee1

Talk a bout bad design: “Sure, you can use the rudder peddles and tear the tail off, just don’t do that.”


61 posted on 12/30/2014 12:05:12 PM PST by CodeToad (Islam should be outlawed and treated as a criminal enterprise!)
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To: ltc8k6

This was the problem with that flight out of brazil awhile ago, one bound for france or spain.

frozen pitot tube couldn’t get airspeed accurate and the plane thought it was in a stall...


62 posted on 12/30/2014 1:32:13 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: CodeToad

Imagine your massive aircraft rebooting several times because of a java problem.


63 posted on 12/30/2014 1:34:59 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: OrangeHoof

They could, however, manage to declare this crash as Bush’s fault.


64 posted on 12/30/2014 1:35:59 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: CivilWarBrewing

yeah, and despite that they’ve failed anyway. some designs were worse than others.


65 posted on 12/30/2014 1:38:03 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: CodeToad

French, but others too. I think airbus is built by a bunch of different euro-socialist countries.


66 posted on 12/30/2014 2:06:53 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Sure but the frogs control the computer systems.


67 posted on 12/30/2014 2:28:03 PM PST by CodeToad (Islam should be outlawed and treated as a criminal enterprise!)
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To: Secret Agent Man

It has happened. It is never supposed to, but the vast majority of avionics programmers are neither aviation specialists nor engineers; they are merely computer programmers.


68 posted on 12/30/2014 2:30:15 PM PST by CodeToad (Islam should be outlawed and treated as a criminal enterprise!)
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To: mabarker1
damn...
69 posted on 12/30/2014 3:30:31 PM PST by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -w- NO Pity for the LAZY - 86-44)
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To: zipper

OAN news had someone on who said a little while ago that the bodies found were mostly naked, which shows that the plane either broke up in altitude, a bomb, or something in the air that caused a mid air breakup. The clothes are ripped off when the bodied fall at high speed.

There were lots of suitcases floating, lots of debris.

I found that information interesting about the naked bodies. They said it would be easy to tell if there were burns or other clues. If it broke up in mid air, it could have been due to heavy turbulence, which does not speak well for the AIRBUS.


70 posted on 12/30/2014 3:55:48 PM PST by Kackikat ('If it talks like a traitor, acts like a traitor, then by God it's a traitor.')
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To: rjsimmon

You are incorrect. AOA probes are on both sides of the fuselage on A320 series aircraft, and are used for constant updating to the FACs, which provide various displays to the pilots; as well they feed AOA information to the fly-by-wire systems. So yes, inaccurate data from AOA probes can have a direct effect on an event that would cause an inflight breakup. In fact the recent AD is specifically about overspeed (as in excess mach) caused by inadvertent activation of Alpha Floor by faulty AOA indications.

FWIW, I am an exeperiened Airbus captain.


71 posted on 12/30/2014 4:19:07 PM PST by Tzfat
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To: Tzfat

Could you provide us non aviators the meaning of Alpha Floor” that you keep referring to?

Thanks


72 posted on 12/30/2014 4:25:22 PM PST by shotgun
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To: Spktyr; Political Junkie Too

Additionally, the suggested southerly arc of MH370 is over some of the deepest water on earth. Whereas, QZ8501 was over some of the shallowest seas on earth.


73 posted on 12/30/2014 4:39:47 PM PST by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. ~Steve Earle)
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To: shotgun
Alpha Floor is a feature where the autothrust system automatically commands TOGA (Take Off/Go Around - basically "give me all you got") thrust if certain angle of attack limits are exceeded. It functions regardless of thrust lever position and autothrust status, provided the autothrust system is operational and the aircraft flight control system is in Normal Law. This feature is available from liftoff down to 100’' RA on approach. Scenarios that may trigger Alpha Floor include: -low speed/high angle of attack -flight windshear conditions -a diving attitude combined with aft sidestick input Following Alpha Floor engagement, the power remains locked at TOGA thrust until pilot intervention. This reversion is referred to as TOGA lock.
74 posted on 12/30/2014 6:33:07 PM PST by CreviceTool (A Good Samaritan with a handgun saved my life...)
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To: CreviceTool

How about we have pilots who know how to fly a f****** airplane without a computer. Is that too much to ask?


75 posted on 12/30/2014 6:39:45 PM PST by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: shotgun

Alpha Floor is an automation feature in Airbus aircraft. If the aircraft approaches a critical angle of attack (AOA), the integrated fly-by-wire systems automatically reduce the angle of attack, and apply maximum thrust to the engines. It makes the Airbus nearly stall-proof. The crew can override Alpha Floor, and it is automatically disabled on approach to land.

A recent Airworthiness Directive (AD) has a procedure the crew can use to override an inadvertent activation of Alpha Floor. The AD addresses a recent occurrence where an A320 inadvertently activated Alpha Floor. The aircraft pitched forward, went to max thrust, and rapidly accelerated. The crew had difficulty disabling the condition. The AD provides a very easy crew procedure to deactivate AF. It should be noted that this occurrence was the first in 26 of commercial service.

The AirAsia accident appears more likely to be a classic case of high altitude upset. In a classic aircraft, that can be deadly; but in an Airbus, if the crew misreads what is happening, the automatic systems can actually work against recovery from upset. Air France 447 is an example of that. Because the crew misunderstood what was happening, they put the A330 into a deep stall that was similar to a falling leaf. Virtually unrecoverable at any altitude below 20,000’.


76 posted on 12/30/2014 6:43:53 PM PST by Tzfat
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To: BwanaNdege

Damn and here I’m thinking all this time my thin air PLF’s were a bitch.......

Got to get the Colonels book ....thanks for the story.


77 posted on 12/30/2014 6:44:42 PM PST by Squantos ( Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet ...)
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To: Lurker

Sully Sullenberger did some fancy flying in A320 equipment.
“We’re going in the Hudson”...was epic.


78 posted on 12/30/2014 6:45:28 PM PST by CreviceTool (A Good Samaritan with a handgun saved my life...)
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To: Tzfat
"So yes, inaccurate data from AOA probes can have a direct effect on an event that would cause an inflight breakup."

You are correct and this is true for nearly all aircraft with AOA sensors. Hornet drivers will tell you that with a four channel AOA failure autopilot is inoperative, flaps schedule by the FCC's under simulated AOA programming and flaps schedule as a function of limit airspeed but will not extend more than extension at AOA failure. Very degraded flying qualities and in the case of a heavy A320 load limits could easily be exceeded flying through a boomer.

79 posted on 12/30/2014 6:51:15 PM PST by Mat_Helm
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To: Tzfat

Even worse would be if back up air data sensors along with a 4 channel AOA failure could cause the flaps to freeze and lock in what ever position they are in at time of failure.


80 posted on 12/30/2014 6:58:54 PM PST by Mat_Helm
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