Posted on 12/27/2014 7:44:11 PM PST by kristinn
By “just above moisture” what I mean is just above visible clouds. Even thousands of feet above such clouds there may still be enough moisture present to cause induction icing in jet aircraft at high altitudes.
I found this particularly helpful in trying to understand how pilots handle storms.
http://www.nwas.org/committees/avnwxcourse/airplanes_and_some_radar_tips.htm
DiD they actually locate the plane yet? Just getting here to FR.
Just out of curiosity and pure ignorance, why would the pilot request a climb to 38,000 if the recommendation is not to fly over?
For reference:
Flying Techniques to Remember
Publications from the FAA and USAF give us aviators numerous tips and techniques to help with that occasional encounter with a thunderstorm. Some of them are important enough to repeat again.
* Don’t try to fly over thunderstorms. They can grow rapidly through your altitude, producing severe turbulence.
* Don’t fly under the anvil where hail damage and lightning can occur.
* Don’t fly into virga where turbulence is likely.
* Avoid all thunderstorms by 203 or more since lightning and hail have been known to extend that far from the clouds.
* Weather warnings are for thunderstorms defined as “severe.” These storms produce 3/4-inch hail, tornadoes, or 50-knot wind gusts. There’s a lot of damage that can occur in thunderstorms that are not flagged by warnings or a SIGMET (significant meteorological report).
* If you have to penetrate:
Go straight. Don’t turn around.
Avoid the altitudes with temperatures of plus/minus 8 degrees Celsius.
Don’t chase altitude. Hold your attitude and watch airspeed.
Use all anti-icing equipment.
No.
I don’t think so. We are more in the dark now than we were 13 hours ago from what I can tell.
Sad to hear that...doesn’t sound favorable for survivors.
Thanks for responding.
Sadly they could have lost their lives from encountering bad weather, even if they followed all those guidelines.
There are other perils such as the one cited above at the WSJ link I posted, related to how the weather affects jet aircraft engines.
Then there is the peril of weather-related pitot systems failures, as happened to Air France 447.
And one weather trap not mentioned at that link: sometimes the radar signal is attenuated from the thunderstorm cell, hiding the thunderstorm behind it. So the crew avoids one thunderstorm, expecting to turn into a clear area behind it, only to encounter another big cell.
The premise is flawed -- assumes they were climbing over a thunderstorm (and a relatively small one if it tops out in the low 30's -- others in the area reported up to 52,000 feet). Airlines frequently climb or descend to avoid turbulence, not just thunderstorms. If they knew the clouds ahead of them were at the same altitude as them, they may have initiated a climb to avoid the turbulence associated with the cloud layer.
It’s just approaching 5am over there, so there may be dalight in an hour or so...I’ve been to Singapore, but for the life of me can’t remember anything about sunrise time at the Equator.
The guidelines that we know have failed on multiple Malaysia flights are those for the ELTs and distress calls.
Troubled aircraft arent being located. That’s a failure of the mandated location systems and standards...a failure of bureaucrats.
There should be resignations and firings.
--
"The plane requested to the air traffic control to fly to the left side which was approved, but their request to fly to 38,000 feet level from 32,000 feet could not be approved at that time due to a traffic, there was a flight above, and five minutes later the flight disappeared from radar," said an Indonesian air transport official.
http://news.yahoo.com/contact-with-airasia-flight-qz8501-bound-for-singapore-from-surabaya-lost-033803688.html
That airplane was 2008 vintage, so it’s probably not an ELT problem.
ELT’s aren’t effective for crash sites under water. It would have activated at the moment of the crash, but it soon would have submerged.
ULB’s are though (underwater locater beacon) but they have limited range.
My understanding is, the waters in that area are very shallow, so if a ship with a ULB locater passes nearby, it will be found. Or an airplane specially equipped to detect ULBs from the air (Navy P-6).
It’s been pretty obvious it was weather all along. It’s just WHAT weather issue downed the plane.
Because communication stopped suddenly, my first guess was lightning knocking out electronics and other controls. Planes are shielded so that won’t happen but there’s always that freak lightning bolt that could have its way.
Downdrafts slamming the plane down are another strong possibility.
Ice on the wings has been brought up on tv as another possibility. But one would think the pilots could have gotten a distress call out if that was the case.
I was surprised to wake up a while ago and learn they still haven’t found the plane since they were told of a plane crashing and have a vicinity to search. My first thoughts were about the passengers’ families and the torment they must be going through. :-(
It does seem like a good idea to have one of those as backup. I guess they feel all the bells and whistles on the big jets are enough to do the job.
Bigger isn't always better. Sometimes smaller and simpler is.
That sounds like good recommendations, so now I wonder ‘WHY’ he did that too?
I know nothing about aviation, only that I don’t fly anymore due to two pilots on commercial airliners, who scared the h&!! out of me.
So you understand this stuff? You said you were an aviator in the body of the comment.
Our government evidently has the ability to make storms and lightning, or so I read earlier today. True?
Thanks for info. I know nothing about aviation, I was just repeating the report last night since CNN was the only one covering at the time.
No, I am not a pilot. That was from a link I posted up-thread. Sorry for the confusion. zipper says my question has a flawed premise in that we can’t assume he was trying to fly over. Also, the climb to 38000 was denied.
Gotcha. Thanks very much.
Yes, but you are from Texas? lol
Haven’t had the news on today...needed to back off from it and enjoy a “peaceful” time so I’ve not been with this happening much at all.
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