[knittnmom]

So much for the vaunted “separation of church and state” the libs are always harping about.

[Nevadan]

Is the IRS also going into mosques? I doubt it.

[Alex Murphy]

Mahoney and fellow church leaders that he's spoken with in the days since the Times' article was published have expressed concern that the IRS could possibly use undercover investigators disguised as clergy to help enforce the HHS' mandate that requires group and employer health insurance plans to cover all FDA-approved contraceptives and abortion-inducing drugs, thus forcing churches and other faith-based organizations to act against their beliefs.

"The red flag that's raised by all the ministers and faith leaders that I talked to over the last 48 hours is it would seem to have to do with healthcare and the Affordable Care Act, and churches complying with that," Mahoney added. "Is the IRS investigating churches and ministers who've said they cannot, in good faith, comply with Obamacare? These are very serious questions when you have a government agency sending undercover agents in as clergy to gather information and spying on American citizens.

"I cannot think of a more serious issue and I think the IRS needs to explain why they are doing this?" Mahoney said. The IRS issued a statement to the Times stating that senior officials within the agency "are not aware of any investigations where special agents have posed as attorneys, physicians, members of clergy or members of the press specifically to gain information from a privileged relationship." However, the IRS declined to say whether undercover agents have posed in roles in efforts to gain information that's not considered "privileged."

Although other federal agencies use undercover agents, like the FBI or the Department of Justice, they have to obey strict guidelines that provide tight oversight on their undercover operations. The IRS, however, doesn't have to abide by such guidelines and its undercover operations have far more latitude.

PFL

[Lazamataz]

IRS Agents Pose as Clergy to Access Privileged Information

This differs from the actions of the KGB in the USSR, how, exactly?

[Army Air Corps]

Ping.

[MUDDOG]

This is bad, but even worse is what they did to Sharyl Attkisson -- planted a classified document on her computer so they could frame her for a crime.

A few nights ago, George Noory asked his guest, "Why are so many people not concerned about gov't spying on them?"

Wrong question, George; it's gone far beyond mere surveillance.

[OneWingedShark]

CWII Spark Ping — Because, you know, posing as priests to collect revenue will NEVER cause outrage in people.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

Not a surpring development since FBI men posed as news reporters...

[polymuser]

If suspected, have them recite all the standard things from memory - Apostles Creed, etc. Have them testify their faith aloud. Then ask if they work for with the IRS.

[GOPJ]

Soon all the little secret police units from the IRS, EPA, SS, Homeland, etc. etc. etc. will form together into one big Secret Police outfit run by liberal bureaucrats... The birthing of a totalitarian State...

[Carl Vehse]

The name's Bond... Rev. Bond"

According to Part 9. Criminal Investigation, Chapter 4. Investigative Techniques, Section 8. Undercover Operations, Rule 9.4.8.3.1.2 (K) (Group I Undercover Operations) states:

An undercover employee or cooperating private individual may pose as an attorney, physician, clergyman, or member of the news media. For example, an agent may pose as an attorney in a setting where he/she purports to represent some other identified party, such as another agent or cooperating private individual, or when the impersonation will clearly not involve a setting conducive to the initiation of an attorney-client relationship with any third party. Further, when assuming such roles, agents will not perform professional services associated with these cover occupations or assume such a cover occupation for the purpose of developing a privileged relationship with any third party.

Subsection L then states:

An undercover employee or cooperating private individual will request information from an attorney, physician, clergyman, or other person who is under the obligation of a legal privilege of confidentiality, and the particular information would ordinarily be privileged.

Thus the IRS claims (if they can be believed) they will not pose as clergy for the purpose of developing a privileged relationship with any third party, but they may pose as clergy to request from real clergy information that would ordinarily be privileged.

[fuzzylogic]

...fine with me, let them. Let them hear everything...including what they want to stop. Then they’ll try to stop it...then it will end up at the Supreme Court, which will do one of two things; rule according to the Constitution and make it clear that the State has no jurisdiction to interfere with the Church, or, support the IRS...in which case all hell will break loose.

Either way, we need to let things play out...don’t resist!

[TexasRepublic]

That won’t succeed at small autonomous congregations. No one slips into our church unnoticed.