Posted on 10/23/2014 9:47:25 AM PDT by tlozo
The burnt-out remains of dozens of tanks and armored vehicles in fields near this small village bear witness to the ferocity of a battle that turned the tide of the conflict in eastern Ukraine.
Most of the tanks were used by the government forces routed in August near Horbatenko, 40 km (25 miles) southeast of the rebel stronghold of Donetsk, a defeat so demoralizing that days later Kiev agreed a ceasefire with pro-Russian separatists.
But among the debris Reuters found the blackened carcasses of what military experts have since identified as two Russian army tanks, supporting statements by Kiev and the West that the rebels were backed by troops and equipment sent by Moscow.
Moscow denies the accusations though the rebels had been on the brink of defeat until late August, when the Ukrainian government says they received an injection of soldiers and weapons from Russia.
Reuters showed photographs of the two badly damaged tanks, one of which had lost its turret, to four independent military experts, who said they were of a type used exclusively by the Russian army.
At least one, they agreed, was a T-72BM - a Russian-made modification of a well known Soviet tank. This version of the tank, they said, is not known to have been exported.
(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...
I don’t think any sane person doubts Russia has invaded Ukraine and intends to occupy it.
No, they’re just freeing up the innocent from the NAZIs running the Ukraine these days. /s
uh-huh.... by acting like NAZI’s?
Well, that’s my take on it. They’re doing what NAZIs did.
It’s “Connect the Dots 101” as far as I am concerned.
Doesn’t seem to be for some others though. Forehead palm...
Russia has taken over the Sudeten lands and I guess the rest of that country is safe.. lol
Perhaps I’m seeing this partially wrong, but if the Russians are having a hard time with the disorganized Ukrainians, imagine what piss poor condition their military must be in.
And since 2008 we know what our word is worth now.
Putin’s handpicked tyrant ran Ukraine for a decade or so, they dismantled its military and looted it economically until the guy got the boot early this year. Meanwhile Russia has had a huge military build-up.
AND they still had trouble taking over eastern Ukraine.
You are right that this does not bode well for their armed forces if they had a real (conventional) fight. I guess they are lucky that Poland and half of Eastern Europe didn’t get involved.
I sure hope that is a kick in the pants to our other “allies” to beef up their own national security
Honestly, I don’t know what to make of it. Their forces can’t be this bad overall. It just very strange. The incompetence in Crimea is also strange.
And yet you have folks talking about how brilliant Poopin is.
The guy is a fool. Look what he has garnered for the reputation of modern Russia. Why it’s the same old crap nation it always was. How utterly refreshing! /s
And as for it’s economy, it’s going to take a massive hit for little more reason that the dumb ass at the top screwed up big-time.
Word!
The incompetence in Crimea, you mean the blackouts and food shortages, economic free-fall and how many (if not most) people still want to vote in Ukraine elections even though they have been annexed?
Yep, that Crimea...
Sometimes you can’t fix stupid.
Yes, they can be.
Russia has a few brigades that are relatively well trained and equipped. The Russian armed forces are rife with corruption-- training budgets are used to have soldiers build dachas for officers or work in side businesses, vendors either don't deliver equipment or deliver stuff that doesn't work, etc.
Its difficult for us to image just how bad it really is, but the heavy casualties they suffered against the equally bad Ukrainians is a good indicator.
Thanks for the response. I would hope you’re right.
Ukrainian armed forces and intelligence services were full of Russian spies. Former head and couple of deputy directors of their intelligence service escaped to Russia with Yanukovich just to show one sign. Russian operation must have been long time in preparing, but looks like Russian agents were ignored by the security services.
This creates a situation where Russian side is likely to know what the orders to Ukrainian army are and can even influence the orders given.
Combine that to already shoddy culture of Ukrainian army and it is no wonder they were initially doing so badly.
I agree with that to a point, but Russia has suffered some very embarrassing losses in the Ukraine. Losing tanks? Yikes. Not taking significantly more territory? Not much to show for it but a red face? (LOL)
I have been quite pleased with how well the Ukrainians have been doing against the Red Orcs, even despite the spies and corruption. It is clear the Russkies did not achieve their military objectives as originally planned, and no doubt they’ve been planning since at least 2006 or longer.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.