Exclusive: Charred tanks in Ukraine point to Russian involvement

Reuters ^ | Oct 23, 2014 | Maria Tsvetkova and Aleksandar Vasovic

[tlozo]

The burnt-out remains of dozens of tanks and armored vehicles in fields near this small village bear witness to the ferocity of a battle that turned the tide of the conflict in eastern Ukraine.

Most of the tanks were used by the government forces routed in August near Horbatenko, 40 km (25 miles) southeast of the rebel stronghold of Donetsk, a defeat so demoralizing that days later Kiev agreed a ceasefire with pro-Russian separatists.

But among the debris Reuters found the blackened carcasses of what military experts have since identified as two Russian army tanks, supporting statements by Kiev and the West that the rebels were backed by troops and equipment sent by Moscow.

Moscow denies the accusations though the rebels had been on the brink of defeat until late August, when the Ukrainian government says they received an injection of soldiers and weapons from Russia.

Reuters showed photographs of the two badly damaged tanks, one of which had lost its turret, to four independent military experts, who said they were of a type used exclusively by the Russian army.

At least one, they agreed, was a T-72BM - a Russian-made modification of a well known Soviet tank. This version of the tank, they said, is not known to have been exported.

[jmacusa]

Unless the Russkies are defending “Rodina’’( The Motherland) they’re not too good when it comes to fighting outside their borders. Hell, in WW2 they didn’t do too good either, not at first anyway.

[DoughtyOne]

Thanks for the mention. I’ve never read a critical analysis of the typical U. S. S. R. combatant in WWII. It would be interesting to know how they morphed during the war too.

[jmacusa]

They tended to just mass artillery, rain it down on the target(whether the Germans were there or not) pile on to their T-34s and away they went. For a really good analysis of the Russian in WW2 I suggest Cornelius Ryan's "The Last Battle'' as well Antony Beevor's "Berlin 1945''.

[DoughtyOne]

Thank you. I’ll check those out.

[wetphoenix]

~I don’t think any sane person doubts Russia has invaded Ukraine and intends to occupy it.~

Even if it is true, this article, even if factually correct, doesn’t prove anything.

Starting with a tank and finishing with MREs.

What they call T-72BM is actually a 1989 model T-72. It might never have been exported and what? Ukraine was a Soviet Union in 1989 and remained this way until 1992.

What Russian MRE has ‘not for sale’ mark? I have never in my life seen such. But it is actually written on Obama-supplied American MREs sent to Ukrainian military (which is factually for sell all around Ukraine and neighboring countries).
Maybe someone has just messed facts?

As for a mineral water have you seen a non-Russian made there?

It reminds me earlier Ukie propaganda pushing the presence of ‘Rolton’ ramen on the battlefield as a clue of Russian presence. Yes, ‘Rolton’ is a Russian brand but it is more known and holds more market in Ukraine and it is actually that makes Ukrainian MREs instead of American ‘not for sale’ which are factually sold by officers.

As for a Russian missile I just don’t know what to say. It is like if the rebels would bring a photo of a charred Chevy-Tahoe by a roadside and a can of Coke to argue for CIA presence.

[tlozo]

1-The T-72B was never sent to Soviet Ukraine. “It is operated by the Russian Army in large numbers, but crucially it is not known to have been exported or operated outside of Russia,” Joseph Dempsey, a military analyst for the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies,
2-A Reuters reporter counted 124 packages of field rations with “not for sale” labels and notes that they were produced for the Russian Defense Ministry. A spokeswoman for Voentorg, the company in Russia that produces such meals for the Russian Defense Ministry, confirmed they cannot be sold.
3-About 50 empty bottles of mineral water around the tanks bore labels identifying them as being produced in Russia’s Ivanovo province, the region where the division of the Russian paratroopers captured in August is based.

[wetphoenix]

What was ‘Russian Army’ in 1989?
They didn’t need to export a thing to bring it into Soviet Ukraine which was a federal subject of USSR.

And I still haven’t seen a Russian MRE with such a marking.

[Grzegorz 246]

“The guy is a fool. Look what he has garnered for the reputation of modern Russia. Why it’s the same old crap nation it always was. How utterly refreshing! /s

And as for it’s economy, it’s going to take a massive hit for little more reason that the dumb ass at the top screwed up big-time.”

Not really. Think about that little, fat guy in North Korea. If he liberalized that thing just a bit, they could get some aid, investments etc. and improve rapidly quality of life of people living there... but he would have to open the country for external influence, step by step people there would get to know what a shythole they've been living in and at some point they would revolt. It's just easier to keep them brainwashed and backward. Similarly, Putin is isolating Russia to consolidate his power. He's a bastard but not a fool.