Posted on 07/16/2014 9:48:24 AM PDT by Star Traveler
Okay, then perhaps you can explain why the border crossing was closed. I mean what the hey, it couldn’t possibly have been a problem could it.
Evidently it was a problem. And if it was a problem, it very well could become one again.
The explanation just doesn’t hold up.
It looks like the situation you seem to support is going to win out. Time will tell won’t it.
IMO, we’re right back here again. And when we are, someone will be here to advocate for the moderate Palestinians again. Frankly, that doesn’t really exist in leadership in either group.
“This is what Egypt wants and Israel is okay with it, because they would prefer to get Abbas and the Palestinian Authority back in control of Gaza.”
Actually it would facilitate the rearming of Hamas. Once their missiles are depleted, they will have to get them into Gaza from somewhere.
Hamas is CURRENTLY the one in control of that situation. Are you saying that the Palestinian Authority would do MORE than Hamas is currently doing right now - in the way of rockets?
Keep in mind that there are NO ROCKETS in all the Palestinian Authority controlled areas of Judea and Samaria.
“Hamas is CURRENTLY the one in control of that situation. Are you saying that the Palestinian Authority would do MORE than Hamas is currently doing right now - in the way of rockets?”
Nope. I am saying that the sole purpose of opening that gate is to rearm Hamas. The PA is Hamas and Hamas is the PA. It’s just who is wearing the whistle.
And on the Egyptian side, who will be manning the gates? It’s going to be a Muzzie also.
That border is between the principals - Egypt and Gaza - and no one else. Now others can complain and grouse and yell and holler and stamp their feet and go into a depression and/funk — if they want to, but it’s not going to change the fact that the ONLY TWO who have any control over that border is Egypt and Gaza.
Now the peculiar thing about “borders” is that NOTHING HAPPENS without the express permission or even implicit permission of BOTH PARTIES.
In this case Egypt has arrested all the Muslim Brotherhood leadership and deposed the Muslim brotherhood PRESIDENT OF EGYPT ... because they were working against the national interests of Egypt. Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood and cooperates and works with them, so Egypt is the one who closed down the border because of them.
So ... with all that as background and with the knowledge of WHO ARE THE ONLY PARTIES controlling the border, I think the whole thing should be clearer to you.
See Post #26 for more background ...
israel needs to control that border, all of its borders, not turn it over to another terrorist outfit like Abbas!
(israel also needs to reclaim all of its land and expel the foreign squatter army occupying it now)
It’s not Israel’s border ... the two principals are EGYPT and GAZA, and no one else ... so they will be the ones who decide how the border is handled.
And right now we see that Egypt wants the Palestinian Authority on the other side and NOT Hamas.
we disagree.
It has always been clear to me. It is also clear that it’s the lower level Muzzies that actually guard the place who take the bribes and look the other way. A Jew hater is a Jew hater regardless of their Islamic upbringing.
I don’t know how you can actually disagree with the “facts on the ground”. We’re not talking about an opinion here, but rather “who” are the “principals” that govern the border. You seem to be confusing “the facts of the situation” -with- “what you wish it to be”.
— — — — —
After the 1995 Oslo Accords, Israel was allowed to retain the security corridor. Following Israel’s unilateral disengagement from the Gaza-strip in 2005, the Philadelphi Accord with Egypt was concluded, which authorized Egypt to deploy 750 border guards along the route to patrol the border on Egypt’s side. The Palestinian side of the border was controlled by Palestinian Authority, until the 2007 takeover by Hamas. The joint authority for the Rafah border crossing was transferred to the Palestinian Authority and Egypt for restricted passage by Palestinian ID card holders, and by others by exception.
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphi_Route
— — — — —
The significant dates here are 1995, 2005 and 2007. This brings you right up to the present time. And again, we’re talking about nothing else except “what actually happened” and “what ‘is’” at this present time.
No. I was talking about what needs to be done now that all those past concessions have proven to have been failures. I apologize if I caused any confusion. I should have worded my response more clearly.
The problem I see people encountering all the time is mixing up “what they want it to be” -with- “what it actually is” at the present time. And then furthermore people mix up “what they want it to be” -with- “what is actually within the power of someone to actually do”.
Those two “mix-ups” contribute to all sorts of problems in discussions of situations like this with Israel.
What I see with Israel itself - though - in considering these issues is that Israel seems to know very well what they “can do” and what they “cannot do”. And also, Israel is quite inventive with what they can do and they have surprised people many times.
ALSO, Israel will WORK WITH ANYONE, ABSOLUTELY ANYONE — even someone who ostensibly hates them and may want to kill them under other circumstances. It doesn’t get in the way of Israel working with them “right now” to achieve whatever limited aims they have.
The fact that Israel will work with ABSOLUTELY ANYONE has served them well in their SURVIVAL. It’s been absolutely necessary. Israel is not an “ideologue” but will do ANYTHING to accomplish their aims.
You’ll find that Israel is working very well with Egypt right now - since the Egyptian Military DEPOSED President Morsi (of the Muslim Brotherhood) and arrested all the leadership of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.
I would bet my bottom dollar that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi have had some very warm and cooperative conversations recently and that they are both working together to limit the power and reach of the Muslim Brotherhood and its offshoot, Hamas. It’s already been reported in the news that Israel and Egypt are cooperating in regards to Gaza.
SO ... having said all that, we’re right back to the “facts on the ground” in that Hamas currently controls the Gaza side of the Egyptian-Gaza border. The ONLY QUESTION here (pertaining to what we’ve been talking about and this article) is whether HAMAS is going to control the Gaza side -or- The Palestinian Authority is going to control the Gaza side.
All your wishful thinking or desires or proposals or “what-ifs” are not going to change that fact of either HAMAS or the PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY.
There is a problem with “that” - which becomes clear as to what the problem is - when you look at what the “facts on the ground” are.
You say that Israel should control that Egyptian-Gaza border. When you see “what is” right at the moment and that the only two principals involved at the present time are Egypt and Gaza - the problem is clear.
How does Israel “get from here to there”?!
In other words, since Israel vacated Gaza and since Israel has nothing to do with that border - how does Israel get from “this present position” to somehow being in control of a border they have absolutely nothing to do with.
For example, it’s one thing to say that the USA should control their southern border, because they are one of the “two principals” involved in that border. But, the USA also recognizes that another problem border is Mexico’s southern border with the Central American countries - who are now flooding across the southern border of the USA. The problem is - “How does the USA control the southern border of MEXICO with Central America - when the USA is NOT one of the principals involved in that border.
I can imagine that someone might make an argument that the USA SHOULD CONTROL THAT BORDER of Mexico with Central America — but — “How does the USA get from here to there?! ... :-) ...
It’s the same with the Egyptian-Gaza border ... “How does Israel get from here to there?!” ... when Israel is not one of the two principals who controls that border? ... :-) ...
Israel gets from A back to B by retracing the (naive, stupid) path it took retreating from B to A.
ASAP.
You may not realize this, but Israel wants nothing to do with governing Gaza. They’re not going back to that.
The most you’re going to see is Israel going in with their 56,000 reservists and cleaning out the Hamas operatives and facilities and arms ... and then LEAVING after that.
I’m not making this up - because you can see very clearly that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has no intention or interest in governing Gaza - in the least! The Israeli public has absolutely no interest in putting their soldiers at continual risk and having more “Gilad Shalits” in that rathole of Gaza!
That’s the problem of “getting from here to there” in the reality of today.
Gaza would be quite governable, for the first time in memory, when/if the enemy population were relocated back to Egypt.
but if that is not imminent,
then Israel still should retake the southern, mostly unpopulated half...re=establish her border controls there with Egypt...rebuild her defense base there, rebuild her civilian towns there....
and leave the governance of gaza city to whomever, provided it is strictly demilitarized (meaning, Israel really starts to control in and out traffic.....despite any complaints about “not letting concrete in” or “a long line at the check point”)
anyway, i’ve had my say. we will now just sit back and see how well Israel can succeed in cleaning out this viper nest
“All your wishful thinking or desires or proposals or “what-ifs” are not going to change that fact of either HAMAS or the PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY.”
All I am saying is it is irrelevant who has the border on the Gaza side. This is about the leverage Israel will gain and the semblance of positive PR Israel may see.
One is just as bad as the other and Israel is pretty sure whoever controls the border at Gaza will be bringing in weapons.
You do know that Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi has destroyed the Hamas tunnels and have made it practically impossible for Ha,as to continue their smuggling business ... I hope.
Egyptians Hoping Israel Will Destroy Hamas
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4401/egypt-israel-hamas
Sisi’s decision not to intervene in the current crisis did not come as a surprise. In fact, Sisi and many Egyptians seem to be delighted that Hamas is being badly hurt.
Some Egyptians are even openly expressing hope that Israel will completely destroy Hamas, which they regard as the “armed branch of the Muslim Brotherhood terrorist organization.”
Sisi’s Egypt has not forgiven Hamas for its alliance with Muslim Brotherhood and its involvement in terrorist attacks against Egyptian civilians and soldiers over the past year.
The Egyptians today understand that Hamas and other radical Islamist groups pose a serious threat to their national security. That is why the Egyptian authorities have, over the past year, been taking tough security measures not only against Hamas, but also the entire population of the Gaza Strip.
These measures include the destruction of dozens of smuggling tunnels along the border between the Gaza Strip and Egypt and the designation of Hamas as a terrorist organization.
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