How about the Kriss. .45 ACP, 6 lbs (versus 11 for the Thompson) The grip being at the same height as the barrel reduces muzzle climb.
Posted on 07/13/2014 2:21:40 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
The Army wants to retire its supply of 9mm handguns and replace it with a more accurate and user-friendly model that also will provide soldiers with more “knock-down” power.
Army officials say their inventory of more than 200,000 semi-automatic Beretta M9 and Sig Sauer M11 pistols has become outdated, worn out and needs to be replaced with an updated model that also offers more reliability and durability.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
It is a truism of extended modern warfare that at the beginning of hostilities, military thinking is to have the lightest possible combat ‘kit’, including lightweight weapons, even if the total *possible* kit weighs hundreds of pounds, because of all its accessories.
But by the end of an extended fight, soldiers are singular that they want more and larger weapons, almost indifferent to weight.
This was illustrated by combat aircraft at the start of WWII, which often had just a single machine gun; compared with combat aircraft near the end of the war, which were bristling with machine guns pointing in all directions.
In any event, if you asked combat veterans of Afghanistan and Iraq what kind of handgun they would ideally want something like a Desert Eagle, firing .50 Action Express.
This would likely be rejected, because many military personnel would have a hard time firing it, many only barely able to use an M1911 A1.
10mm. Plain and simple.
What about the 1000’s of 1911’s that the military has laying around in weapons lockers? Oh wait that would save money. Nevermind.
Did she ever eat lobster with Jerry Seinfeld?
I watched a South Vietnamese officer duel a VC machine gun for about 20 minutes years ago.. The ARVN had a huge Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44 Magnum and they were about 200m away from each other thoughout the duel while all the rest of us watched. The VC machinegun went chut-chut-chut-chut then the Ruger would Boom - and it would be quiet for a few seconds and the sequence started all over again.
Eventually, the ARVN officer ran out of ammo for the Ruger and the VC got bored and went home. It was a great show!
Somewhere Moses Browning is smiling as his 100+ year old solution to this problem might still be the best option.
BB guns? Try leftover ribbons from the Olympic rhythmic gymnastics team. And TelePrompTers for the commanders.
My bride is 110 pounds soaking wet, and can shoot my Kimber just fine. She prefers her .40 Beretta though because it is pretty
Return to the 1911 .45 Cal.!
If memory serves; 10mm is the semi-auto equivalent to the .41 magnum. The .40 S&W is a de-tuned 10 mm to match the .45 loaded with 185 gr. at 850 to 900 fps (to remain sub sonic). Military issue .45 is 230 gr. at 850 - 900 fps. Extrapolating the numbers without the tables I’d say the 10 mm is a step up in power from the .45. I still prefer the .45 in non combat scenarios to reduce the chance of over penetration and maximize energy transfer to the target.
Fine, then we'll just say that there are a lot of women who are too small for a 1911. If you can't touch the releases or master the pistol with one hand when it freezing cold and slippery, then its too big for you.
Ditto for the Garand and the M-14.
How's that 99 pound niece of yours like the idea of lugging that Garand on a 20 mile march with a 60 pound pack?
A hundred years ago Americans were smaller on average today.
Not really. Men are now 1" taller than in 1912 and women are exactly the same height. It was between 1812 and 1912 that you saw a great increase in height. That said, women in 2012 were an average of 5" shorter than the average man in 1912. Thus, 40% of the military has significantly shrunk from when the 1911 was introduced. That was my original point if you remember.
The FAA requires pilots use oxygen over 10,500 feet. Coloradans do aerobics at over 12,500 feet. Skiing, hiking, off road motorcycles etc. All day long. Flatlanders turn blue sitting in a chair at 12,500 feet. Perhaps that makes us less recoil sensitive.
Hypoxia has many interesting effects, one of which is diminished cognitive function. Down here in the thick air, I like guns that ergonomically fit, and manageable recoil, which is why I don't go shoot 300 rounds of .300 Mag at Prairie Dogs.
“the classic 230 grain FMJ is pushed along at about 1400 fps”
Actually it’s around 900 fps, and that’s approaching maximum.
“...toss the Geneva Convention... “
Motion seconded.
The Geneva Convention only applies when both parties are signatories, just like any other international agreement.
FMJs are intended to wound, creating a logistic burden as the other side retrieves, cares for and treats their wounded - in theory taking more than soldier out of the fight for every one soldier wounded (hardly seems humane to me, on the face of it.)
The Islamofascists don’t care about their wounded, and being a non-state actor, they aren’t a signatory to the GC.
In fact, their actions are essentially those of bandits or pirates, operating outside any sort of social convention. As with pirates on the high seas, the appropriate and usual response is “shoot on sight, and continue to shoot until the threat is eliminated”.
Therefore, we should not feel any compunction to use so-called “humane” ammunition (or otherwise limiting the means available in removing the threat and achieving victory) in accordance with an agreement to which we are the only signatory in this fight, and against a belligerent faction that acts so abhorrently. So limiting ourselves only extends the conflict (”humane” conflict, anyone?) and sets us up to lose in the long run.
When one party doesn’t agree to ‘the rules’, all bets are off. If you’re fighting “fair”, you’re losing.
IN over 50 years of shooting, I have fired a lot of weapons; long guns, pistols, revolvers, etc.
In the realm of handguns, I have NEVER been disappointed with the venerable 1911A1 firing 230 grain roundball ammo when the situation deals with man to man type scenarios.
If the US Military would step up to hollowpoint ammo for the 1911A1, and tune the gun correctly, there would be NO discussion right now.
The 9mm is a nice caliber, but lacks the net power-on-target that the 1911 brings to the battle. The 9mm was a compromise that considered women as the bearer. Give them a carbine.
Keep the 1911A1. It’s battle proven, and it’s got the power.
We were not talking about 45 auto. It is a new cartridge.
They are worn out
It was the Hague Convention of 1899 and the United States did not sign so in reality we are not covered by the Convention.
The Geneva Convention does not address types of ammunition.
Tankers only carried pistols if they bought their own. Most did.
How about the Kriss. .45 ACP, 6 lbs (versus 11 for the Thompson) The grip being at the same height as the barrel reduces muzzle climb.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.