Posted on 06/20/2014 7:51:00 AM PDT by rktman
I thought we were discussing this particular facility.
You have a point there. Perhaps this was some sort of judgment call. But Bush and more importantly the US lost a lot of credibility by going into Iraq for "false" reasons. IMHO if there really were WMD's, it would have been better for Bush to let the world know.
Nope. He could not do it. And if you do not see why, then you are in the Animal House fraternity. There are things more important then politics. Like keeping WMD out of the hands of terrorist, making sure your country is not accused of polluting the country of Iraq with WMD, telling the world where WMD is buried and located, etc. etc. And since Obama is all politics and all Obama all the time, you can be assured he will get WMD into the hands of terrorists. In fact, he already has.
You are just trying to deal with the latest agitprop from the RINO/DINO illegal cartel running the country. Blame Bush is all they have now, because actually looking at Emperor Zero without his clothes, is just too spooky.
The UN spent close to 10 years destroying Saddam's WMD. And at the end, they had Saddam's own documentation stating there was more, but Saddam could not find it for them. So there had to be WMD somewhere.
If you fell for the agitprop of no WMD, then you also probably leaning to the stop AGW Climate Change programming.
Oh, that explains it. I really thought I had gone back in time. Thanks!
If your reading of the situation is correct, then it was a judgment call. But I would then argue that Bush made the wrong call. By not “finding” WMD’s, the reputation of the US was greatly damaged. That's a very big deal. We are no longer indisputably the good guys.
Today, much of the world - and many Americans - see the US as aggressors in Iraq, and muslims as the victims. That is a very dangerous mindset going forward.
“Why didn’t the US destroy any WMD’s when we were there? I’d like to ask George Bush that question.”
While your at it, ask Barack Hussein Obama.
That was what he kept saying and I believe with all my heart that is what he believed. I also agree that this nation building did not end well. It was to much to hope for.
However, who with a straight face can sit here and say that they foresaw this muzzie, poser POS, Arab spring nonsense child we now have in office coming from way back in 2003?
He’d just blame Bush. It would be a waste of time.
God is there for more important things.
I think everyone should read the source and also what the source points to in the relevant location. I realize it’s a bit difficult to find what’s refrenced in the headline but it’s there, you just have to scroll down.
When you do, and get to the time stamp 17.09, this is where the relevant portion starts. It begins,
Chemical weapons produced at the Al Muthanna facility, which Isis today seized, are believed to have included mustard gas, Sarin, Tabun, and VX.
This is a bit misleading because the “CIA File” (linked right below this) states, (here: https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-reports-1/iraq_wmd_2004/chap5_annxB.html )
Stockpiles of chemical munitions are still stored there. The most dangerous ones have been declared to the UN and are sealed in bunkers.
Although declared, the bunkers contents have yet to be confirmed.
These areas of the compound pose a hazard to civilians and potential blackmarketers.
Numerous bunkers, including eleven cruciform shaped bunkers were exploited. Some of the bunkers were empty. Some of the bunkers contained large quantitiesof unfilled chemical munitions, conventional munitions, one-ton shipping containers, old disabled production equipment (presumed disabled under UNSCOM supervision), and other hazardous industrial chemicals.”
Now one must realize that this CIA file is from 2007. So this isn’t information from today, it’s 2007. Who knows what happened between now and then.
I’m not saying there isn’t cause for concern, but essentially this is old news. It may not have even been reported back in 2007, probably was under reported, but again, this is not news (that there were stockpiles of chemical weapons discovered in 2007, by the CIA).
So this doesn’t show anything new for those who have been really paying attention.
Now, again there’s cause for concern because we have no idea what happened at this plant since 2007. And indeed how much more dangerous the stockpile may be now. However it is unlikely that ISIS will be able to do anything (but kill themselves) with these weapons given their likely degraded state.
Or maybe they were actually destroyed.
The media should report this though since it was obviously under reported when initially discovered (back in 2007) which was of course when this nation was at the height of bash Bush mode. I wouldn’t be surprised if the few outlets that did report this back then reported it as something like “Bush’s CIA discovers weapons cache...” The implication being of course they made it up to make Bush look good.
Good points. Thanks.
IHope you are right about this.
"I wouldn’t be surprised if the few outlets that did report this back then reported it as something like “Bush’s CIA discovers weapons cache...” The implication being of course they made it up to make Bush look good."
I know you're right about this!
Did Saddam Hussein have chemical (NBC, WMD) weapons? Of course he did; he used them against Iran, and Shia muslims and Kurds in his own country. Did he cooperate with UN weapons inspectors? Not according to the weapons inspectors.
Was it all about WMDs? No. Saddam Hussein supported terrorism. Saddam Hussein never fully complied with the peace treaty following his ouster from Kuwait by George Bush Sr.
Consider the IRAQ LIBERATION ACT OF 1998 signed by President Clinton:
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-105publ338/pdf/PLAW-105publ338.pdf
Congress and President Clinton cited many reasons for their goals of regime change, a military tribunal to try Hussein, and the establishment of Democracy in Iraq. Clinton declared war on Hussein by such means as funding opposition groups, and making radio broadcasts.
One of the leaders of the 1996 World Trade Center bombing worked for the Iraqi CIA. One terrorist training camp in Iraq had commercial planes that were used for hijacking drills. Did Hussein have any covert involvement in the 2001 attacks? Our one party press immediately said "NO!" I wonder what they would have said if Gore were President instead of Bush. They might even have shared this photograph:
http://www.spiritoftruth.org/images/3rd-infantry-saddam-911.jpg
Since dollars had failed to oust Hussein, it was only sensible for Congress and President Bush to give war a chance:
AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF MILITARY FORCE AGAINST IRAQ RESOLUTION OF 2002
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-107publ243/pdf/PLAW-107publ243.pdf
So Bush won the war in Iraq. Bush and Colin Powell frittered it away. Bush, Petreus and the surge won it back. President Hussein Obama gave the country away.
As for the WMDS, most were moved to Syria. Why these chemical stockpiles were not destroyed I can not say. Both President Bush and President Obama bear responsibility.
President Saddam Hussein did pursue nuclear weapons, but our invasion of Iraq stopped him. Now President Hussein Obama is allowing Iran to develop nuclear weapons.
President Hussein is also allowing the nearly unrestricted immigration of Muslims to the US. The Boston marathon bombers had “terrorist” all over them, but Obama’s FBI did nothing. There will be more Jihadi attacks on American soil.
Those weapons are so old—will they even work? Are they shells or just the chemicals? Can they be fired from a mortar? can they be used in a truck bomb? How will we know? When one hits the Green Zone?
Either we lied about WMD.
Or
We damaged bunkers by bombing and had to leave WMD in place
Blew up WMD store facilities and polluted Iraq
Gave locations where terrorists could find WMD buried.
Catch 22. No win scenario you have to go with the side that causes the least amount of death.
Isis will use Christian slaves to open the bunkers and recover the WMDs to use—if the slaves die—it is the will of Allah. It will not take much poison gas to get the population of Baghdad to run south. The fanatic Isis use fear and terror the way Gengis Khan did when he captured a big chunk of the world. Get people scared out of their wits and they will not fight. Unless something changes a few bombing runs and a drone of two will not stop the advance. I am impressed with Isis and their organization—they are not a band of terrorists—they are an Islamic army on the march—I put nothing passed them. We would be fools to underrate them.
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