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To: Political Junkie Too; Uncle Sham
On this post, the premise was that a state that did not ratify the 17th amendment was denied its equal suffrage.

No that was not my premise. All states have been denied any suffrage, equal or otherwise, by the 17th amendment. My premise was that those states that did not ratify the 17th amendment have been denied suffrage without their consent, which Article V does not allow.

49 posted on 06/14/2014 11:53:56 AM PDT by SeeSharp
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To: SeeSharp
With the 17th, America demanded democracy. It got tyranny instead.

I'm not aware of any non-ratifying state that protested the new senate on the basis of your argument. It is a real shame, for they were certainly denied suffrage, equal or otherwise.

51 posted on 06/14/2014 12:17:51 PM PDT by Jacquerie (To restore the 10th Amendment, repeal the 17th. Article V.)
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To: SeeSharp; Uncle Sham
No that was not my premise. All states have been denied any suffrage, equal or otherwise, by the 17th amendment.

I stand corrected.

I guess that I didn't see this. You are making the distinction that the state-at-large as represented by its government, and not the collection of its citizens, has lost the power of voting in the Senate because the legislature lost the right to select their Senators.

You are making the claim that elsewhere in the Constitution when the word "state" is used it is meant to mean the state as a governing body. I agree with this because the 10th amendment says "reserved to the states, or to the people."

Elsewhere in the Constitution, the people and the states are separated, as in the Electoral College (which is also under attack by progressives).

You are saying that the shift of choosing Senators was done without the consent of some states, and that meant that representation of a state-at-large was lost without that state's consent.

That's a deep, and tough, nut to crack. To go there, one would also have to ask if "consent" was given when the states consented to the amendment process in Article V when they ratified it in the first place.

Even if they didn't agree with the outcome, they agreed to an amendment process that allowed for 3/4ths of the states to decide for all. Even if a state came down on the losing side (in this case against ratifying the 17th amendment), they still consented to the ratification process knowing that they will win some and lose some, because it wasn't a unanimous consent ratification process.

-PJ

52 posted on 06/14/2014 12:21:40 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (If you are the Posterity of We the People, then you are a Natural Born Citizen.)
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