Ukraine Says it Reached an 'Understanding' with Russia

Arutz Sheva ^ | 10/6/14

[Eleutheria5]

Ukraine said on Monday it had reached a "mutual understanding" with Moscow on parts of a plan proposed by President Petro Poroshenko for ending violence in the east of the country.

No further details ...

[Eleutheria5]

Good thing I didn't make any popcorn.

[Thunder90]

Possibly something brokered between Ukraine, Russia and the US, causing Ukraine to cede Crimea, Dontesk, and Karkov to Russia in exchange for hard cash from Russia to bouy their economy.

[The_Victor]

And what is the value of the previous treaties with Russia, like the one that recognized the boarders of Ukraine in exchange for return of the Soviet Union’s nuclear arsenal?

[Reaganez]

More likely Ukraine has agreed to become a Vassal State.

The historical relationship between Russia and Ukraine.

[Greysard]

More likely Ukraine has agreed to become a Vassal State.

This is neither likely nor possible. Poroshenko cannot speak for Western Ukraine - and policies of Right Sector created a lot of people there who see Russians as the enemy.

What is more likely, IMO, is that Putin showed Poroshenko a documentary movie that was filmed in last couple of weeks in the theater of war. And then he showed him an invitation to Hague - a criminal complaint with charge of war crimes. That's the fire that Presidents are playing with. A government has no right to kill citizens just because they have a different political opinion. (The opposite is not true.)

Russia has other ways to apply pressure. For example, it may establish a no-fly zone over the area of the conflict. Precedent-wise, this would be something that the UN will have to accept - it hurts nobody, and it prevents further destruction. Poroshenko is a businessman, not a zealot. He will approach this from the position of logic. Ukraine cannot make people of Donetsk love Ukraine by killing more of them. As the separatists aren't marching on Kiev or doing any other offensive, Ukrainian Army cannot justify its actions that would be fit for Soviet Union in 1968, not for a modern democracy that strives to join EU.

[DesertRhino]

Probably an agreement that NATO wont be deploying into Ukraine. As it shouldn’t.

[Reaganez]

Poroshenko was elected by Western Ukraine. Of course he speaks for them.

Accepting Russian sovereignty over Ukrainian air space and Crimea is accepting Vassal State status.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Poroshenko was elected by all of Ukraine. The nonsense that the Separatists enjoy popular support in any region of Ukraine is just the fantasy of Russia. Poll after poll from Pew and other organizations have shown that the separatists are a microminority, a finding that was confirmed by the Presidential election.

The red areas are all those areas that went to Poroshenko. The grey is where no election was held. Even with those gray parts, there was record breaking turnout.

Ceding any part of Ukraine when the people do not want it is just stupidity. The Ukrainian government understands it, and that is why there will be no annexation. Russia's only option is to invade. Their propaganda war is falling apart since the facts on the ground are so contrary to their claims that even the Russians in Russia are catching on, despite a constant onslaught by their state controlled media.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

What is more likely, IMO, is that Putin showed Poroshenko a documentary movie that was filmed in last couple of weeks in the theater of war. And then he showed him an invitation to Hague

What a joke! I do not think it is impossible for Putin the mass murderer and thief to be so cynical as to accuse Ukraine of war crimes (they've been doing it since day one), but the idea that Putin has some secret smoking gun is ludicrous. They aren't holding anything back in Russian media, which consists of images of the Ukrainian government with cuts to black and white videos of marching Nazis.

[GeronL]

Russia may drop the pretense and invade at any time

[Greysard]

but the idea that Putin has some secret smoking gun is ludicrous.

It doesn't need to be secret, or even true. It only needs to be effective. In other words, Putin only needs to have some power over Poroshenko. Pick your own kind of power. Any threat will do.

[Fee]

That is what hurts the Russian cause for Crimea. She signed a treaty recognizing the border of Ukraine when the Ukraine became independent and surrender the Soviet nuclear weapons on her soil to international disarmament teams. IMJHO Putin played out his cards and got the minimum out of the crisis, Crimea and the Russian naval base in Sevastopol. This minimum gain has roused EU (Germany did not abandon NATO despite all the business deals she has with Russia). The other thing that hurt Putin is China demanded for more access to Russian aviation technology as a precursor to buying Russian gas and oil. If Russia had invaded and taken the Russian dominated portions of Ukraine, even Obama will have no choice but to confront Russia by redeploying US assets from Asia to Europe and most of the NATO countries will rearm or move assets to Eastern Europe. IAW a mini arms race/Cold War. Russia stands to lose in the long run. Her small economy (2 trillion vs EU/US combine 30 trillion) will be consumed by arms race, plus the burden of feeding the Ukraine Russians, and worst make Russia more dependent on China. In a multipolar world, the first two powers fight, they lose. Nuclear weapons is the only thing Russia has but using it means they will lose. Russia tried dumping 23 billion in US T bills, only to see Belgium (supported by EU/US/Japan) buy them all within hours and the Russian move hardly caused a ripple to the US T Bill prices. IAW the US dollar basis central banks of the west and Japan will band together to counter Russian financial warfare moves. While Putin skirmishes with the west, China is taking copious notes on the strenghs and weakness of the combating parties.
IMHO all this fighting over the Ukraine has benefited China, not Russia, and Putin has to keep that in the back of his mind as he skirmishes with the US.

[Fee]

That is what hurts the Russian cause for Crimea. She signed a treaty recognizing the border of Ukraine when the Ukraine became independent and surrender the Soviet nuclear weapons on her soil to international disarmament teams. IMJHO Putin played out his cards and got the minimum out of the crisis, Crimea and the Russian naval base in Sevastopol. This minimum gain has roused EU (Germany did not abandon NATO despite all the business deals she has with Russia). The other thing that hurt Putin is China demanded for more access to Russian aviation technology as a precursor to buying Russian gas and oil. If Russia had invaded and taken the Russian dominated portions of Ukraine, even Obama will have no choice but to confront Russia by redeploying US assets from Asia to Europe and most of the NATO countries will rearm or move assets to Eastern Europe. IAW a mini arms race/Cold War. Russia stands to lose in the long run. Her small economy (2 trillion vs EU/US combine 30 trillion) will be consumed by arms race, plus the burden of feeding the Ukraine Russians, and worst make Russia more dependent on China. In a multipolar world, the first two powers fight, they lose. Nuclear weapons is the only thing Russia has but using it means they will lose. Russia tried dumping 23 billion in US T bills, only to see Belgium (supported by EU/US/Japan) buy them all within hours and the Russian move hardly caused a ripple to the US T Bill prices. IAW the US dollar basis central banks of the west and Japan will band together to counter Russian financial warfare moves. While Putin skirmishes with the west, China is taking copious notes on the strenghs and weakness of the combating parties.
IMHO all this fighting over the Ukraine has benefited China, not Russia, and Putin has to keep that in the back of his mind as he skirmishes with the US.

[McGruff]

Nice to see some adults involved in the discussion here.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Just post some links to your “The Jews are behind everything” websites. Maybe that will send the adults away.

[mac_truck]

Russia tried dumping 23 billion in US T bills, only to see Belgium (supported by EU/US/Japan) buy them all within hours and the Russian move hardly caused a ripple to the US T Bill prices.

Its hard to conceive that the tiny country of Belgium would spend roughly 5% of its GDP buying US treasury bills in one month or that such a decision would be made so quickly.

Some entity in Belgium is doing a lot of buying of US debt, but on who's behalf is not really known.

[McGruff]

In the end it may be economics that resolves this conflict.

Dam capitalist.

[mac_truck]

Even with those gray parts, there was record breaking turnout.

Was the record broken for how few people voted? Otherwise your assertion is false.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Was the record broken for how few people voted? Otherwise your assertion is false.

"Despite violence and threats in east, Ukraine election characterized by high turnout and resolve to guarantee fundamental freedoms, international observers say...

"“This election proved the democratic spirit of the people of Ukraine, who had the opportunity to genuinely express their will at the ballot box, and seized it in high numbers,” said João Soares, the Special Co-ordinator who led the short-term OSCE observer mission. “The electoral and security authorities of Ukraine should be commended for their efforts – under extraordinary circumstances – to facilitate an election that largely upheld democratic commitments.”

“Unfortunately, many citizens were prevented from voting in Donetsk and Luhansk, as were nearly all in Crimea, due to the ongoing threats to Ukraine’s territorial integrity,” said Ilkka Kanerva, Head of the OSCE PA delegation. “However, the impressive turnout in the rest of the country offered a powerful rebuke to those who would challenge Ukraine’s unity and progress.”

http://www.osce.org/odihr/elections/119081

[mac_truck]

Lol...does your internal programming not permit you to acknowledge you were wrong?

Poor little bot...