Posted on 05/20/2014 12:54:51 PM PDT by tcrlaf
Ukrainian troops deployed in the country’s east should immediately return to their bases, the country’s parliament said in a memorandum. The freshly-adopted document also urges constitutional reforms based on the decentralization of Kiev’s power.
With 226 votes required to pass the law, the Ukrainian parliament finally adopted the so-called ‘Memorandum of Peace and Consent’, 252 MPs voting in favor. In particular, the document calls "to restore law, order and public safety in the state by stopping bloodshed and bringing to justice those responsible for the killings of civilians during mass protests; to stop the anti-terrorist operation in Ukraine’s southeast and return the soldiers involved in anti-terrorist operations to their places of permanent deployment.”
Kiev launched a military crackdown in the country’s south-east regions in April in response to mass protests against the coup-appointed government calling for the federalization of the region.
(Excerpt) Read more at rt.com ...
And you seem to think the rebels in Kiev are as pure as the driven snow.
There are no good guys here.
I understand Soros was behind every attempt to sow distrust between the two brotherly nations, Ukraine and Russia. I’ve read Shevchenko and Hetman Mazepa were financed by him as well.
And what "impurities" do you wish to share with us? Care to be specific? It's easy to say "nobody is perfect," but if you want us to believe that the Ukrainians are, perhaps, mass murdering Russians - even though the Maidan itself was populated by... guess what... Russians, Afghanies, Tatars, Poles, Jews, and the like- you'll have to do better than throwing at us these bland assertions.
Conservatives are not moral relativists. Unless you support the Kremlin, which IS still supporting communist movements, countries, terrorist organizations ALL across the world, along with countries like IRAN and SYRIA (this is not a conspiracy theory, unlike what what RT offers), then you have no business in sitting on the fence while the Kremlin lies and murders its way to building a new Soviet Union.
The Russkies and the Chicoms are our mortal enemies, and unless we recognize that and begin to take steps to psychologically and materially resist them, we will one day be their victims, just as Ukraine is Russia's victim today. Then these goobers on this forum, who happily quote Russian Media, will perhaps sing a different tune as the average American is demonized so that nobody complains when WE are murdered.
Just about everyone in America has natural mistrust of Putin for reasons that have little to do with Putin.
The atheists hate him because he is an avuncular Christian.
The Protestants hate him because he favors the Orthodox church over know-nothing American missionaries who think that all Orthodox are Soviets, even though the Soviets kills 85,000 out of 86,000 Orthodox priests. (Russia doesn’t exempt attacks on religion from laws against slander, like the US and Europe do in practice.)
The Catholics want their Catholic churches back that the Soviets took from them to give to lackeys.
The neo-cons hate him because hating Russians is all they know how to do.
The liberals hate him because he doesn’t support anal sex as a holy lifestyle and doesn’t buy into the leftwing European Union.
He gets hated because he’s blamed for the existence of the oligarchs; then when breaks up the oligarchies, he’s accused of anti-democratically routing out potential rivals.
RFERL (Radio free Europe/Liberty) today had an article about how Russian media just butchered this in their reporting, quite pathetic. The article is in Russian with direct quotes from the memorandum. (you can google translate to verify for yourself)
Whatever Russian media says, you're better off assuming the opposite, because that little "if" that was omitted gives the story a very different meaning.
So you mean tcrlaf was again taken in due to his inability to critically evaluate Russian media? Say it ain't so!
“The soldiers are to return to their barracks IF”
It is still a significant move...
And a likely last gasp at keeping the country together.
Putin the divorcee who justified his divorce as valid because it wasn't conducted in a church? Putin the divorcee who has people beaten and murdered in Russia for opposing his regime? People who claim that Putin is some kind of a Christian are uncritical clowns with their heads up their butts.
The Protestants hate him because he favors the Orthodox church over know-nothing American missionaries who think that all Orthodox are Soviets,
Want to know who else thinks the Russian Orthodox is run by Soviets? KGB documents and former Soviets noting that the patriarch of the ROC was a "former" KGB agent, and that all the people aiming for the position back in 2009 were also known KGB agents.
We also dislike them since the Kremlin uses the ROC, as it has for a very long time, as another arm of the government. They also prefer the ROC over all other denominations, using intimidation and other nefarious tactics to drive out non-ROC churches.
Are you Russian Orthodox by any chance?
The Catholics want their Catholic churches back that the Soviets took from them to give to lackeys.
As a matter of fact that's still going on!
The liberals hate him because he doesn’t support anal sex as a holy lifestyle and doesn’t buy into the leftwing European Union.
Yes, righteous Russia! Stacked full with theosophists and admirers of folkish religions in top places in academia, the military, and politics! Righteous Russia, where women are routinely kidnapped and sold into sex slavery, and where the porn industry operates out in the open! Righteous Russia, who dislike trannies winning music awards but were represented in the first place at that same competition by a psuedolesbian underage duet!
He gets hated because he’s blamed for the existence of the oligarchs
Most of them are his friends, and Putin has made millions from them!
>> Putin the divorcee who justified his divorce as valid because it wasn’t conducted in a church? <<
Look up the meaning of the word, “avuncular.” It doesn’t mean what you think it means. And by the way, ROC accepts divorce.
>> Putin the divorcee who has people beaten and murdered in Russia for opposing his regime? <<
Yeah, right.
>> Are you Russian Orthodox by any chance? <<
No, Catholic actually.
>> Righteous Russia, where women are routinely kidnapped and sold into sex slavery, and where the porn industry operates out in the open! <<
Lured by promises of jobs to the West, kidnapped and sold to American pornographers. Look, Russia has plenty of sin, — Putin sure as Hell ain’t the second coming of Christ — but for an American to criticize the porn culture of another nation is just too hypocritical to fathom.
Shows how big of a know nothing you are. This is the same think they were saying from day one by the Ukrainian authorities.
From April's Geneva agreement:
"Under the Geneva agreement, illegal armed groups are meant to end the occupations of government buildings and disarm. In return, protesters who have left public buildings and surrendered weapons will be offered an amnesty and the central government in Kiev will begin a process of constitutional reforms aimed at devolving powers to the regions."
http://worldpoliticsjournal.com/2014/04/geneva-agreement-aimed-defusing-crisis-ukraine-unravels/
The Maidan was populated by ethnic Russians from all parts of Ukraine, and this was one of the original demands of that movement to begin with.
Really? I didn't know that. Catholics and Protestants don't, probably because the Bible doesn't either, unless you want us to believe his wife was a fornicator? (Though rumor was and still is that HE was the one fornicating around!)
Mat_5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Yeah, right.
Yeah right? So do they just beat and murder themselves?
"Russia's political murders have to stop
Thursday, October 29, 2009
MURDERS OF human rights activists in Russia have been happening with such frequency that some will be tempted to shrug at the brutal slaying on Sunday of Maksharip Aushev, who campaigned against abuses by the security forces in the Caucasian republic of Ingushetia. Mr. Maksharip was driving on a major highway, in broad daylight, when a car pulled up beside him and delivered a fusillade of bullets. His funeral came two months after that of Zarema Sadulayeva, the head of a children's charity in neighboring Chechnya, and her husband, who were shot and stuffed in a car trunk. Those murders, in turn, followed the July 15 killing of Natalya Estemirova, Chechnya's most prominent human rights activist.
No one has been arrested, much less held responsible, in any of these cases. No one has been charged for the murder last Jan. 19 of human rights lawyer Stanislav Markelov and journalist Anastasia Baburova, who were gunned down on a busy street just blocks from the Kremlin. The murderers of journalist Anna Politkovskaya, who was assassinated outside her Moscow apartment three years ago this month, remain at large. These courageous men and women had in common their effort to hold Russian security forces accountable for the extrajudicial killings, torture and rape of innocent civilians in Chechnya, Ingushetia and other Caucasus republics.
Russia leader Vladimir Putin has been shrugging at this gangsterism all along. He disparaged Ms. Politkovskaya, one of the country's most renowned journalists, shortly after her death, and he's had nothing to say about the recent killings."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/28/AR2009102804143.html
No, Catholic actually.
So you're a Catholic aiding and abetting a religious church run by communists that is anti-Catholic? Interesting!
"Churches Under Fire in Russian Takeover of Crimea
Tuesday, March 25th, 2014
The hostile takeover of the Ukrainian Crimea by Russia is having religious repercussions. Catholic leaders, long repressed under the Soviet Union, have been ordered by pro-Russian forces to abandon their congregations in Crimea and flee to mainland Ukraine. The Ukrainian Greek Catholic church has refused, saying their clergy will remain with the sheep. At least three priests have been detained and released by Russian forces. ICC will continue to follow the situation as it develops. [...]
Russia’s Catholics and Protestants Labeled “Extremists”?
Monday, December 2nd, 2013
The labeling of Christians and Catholics as "extremists" has made its way to Russia.
http://www.persecution.org/category/countries/asia/russia/
Lured by promises of jobs to the West, kidnapped and sold to American pornographers. Look, Russia has plenty of sin, — Putin sure as Hell ain’t the second coming of Christ — but for an American to criticize the porn culture of another nation is just too hypocritical to fathom.
Oh, don't you dare try to spin this on me after sticking up for Putin, Moscow, and the ROC!
I’m so glad you’re so worried about Catholic priests! Catholic New Agency (CNA) was unfamiliar enough with Crimea that they reported what they were told, without verifying. Turns out that the detained priest they interviewed told them that Stepan Bandera was an anti-Nazi, in explaining why he had a shrine set up to Bandera. THe problem was that Banders was a Nazi wanna-be who slaughtered 100s of 1000s of Catholic Poles in the Ukraine... just to ingratiate himself with Hitler.
So here’s what really happened ACCORDING TO THE PRIEST HIMSELF with my thoughts in parens:
Priest goes to deliver bullet-proof jackets and requisitions to a Ukrainian military depot. (Why does a priest have bullet-proof jackets?) The pro-Russian police go to question him about it, and find a shrine to Bandera, (a Nazi, genocidal terrorist who exterminated hundreds of thousands of Catholics). They take him in for more questioning, and release him a few hours later, rattled but unharmed.
Notice the essential dishonesty of this response (well, ALL your responses are essentially dishonest). I cite articles talking about CATHOLICS and Protestants in the plural number, and you reduce it down to a single Priest you claim is a Nazi, and therefore, I suppose, deserves kidnapping. Tell me, thou enemy of Christendom, are all Non-ROC churches Nazi organizations?
Why Russia Persecutes Non-Orthodox Churches
ICC Note:
This article provides an excellent introduction into the difficult climate for non-orthodox Christians living in the former Soviet Union. The recent forced demolition of a Protestant church in Moscow and subsequent fining of the pastor for having the courage to meet in the churches rubble record demonstrate a determination by the Russian government to control and suppress non-orthodox Christians.
10/4/2012 Russia (Christians in Crisis)- Russian police demolished Holy Trinity Pentecostal Church in Moscow last month. The members of the church now gather near the ruins for worship, bearing testimony to the continued persecution of "non-traditional," or disfavored, religious groups after President Vladimir Putin assumed office about five months ago.
It is estimated that 90 percent of ethnic Russians - and around 70 percent of all Russian citizens - identify themselves as Orthodox. Since the collapse of the USSR in 1991, Russians have closely associated Orthodoxy with national identity, replacing socialism with Orthodoxy. However, people's association with the Russian Orthodox Church is apparently more symbolic than representative of their commitment to the substance of the faith. This is perhaps why the church attendance is extremely low.
Russia's 1993 Constitution states that all religious associations are equal before the law. However, the preamble of the Law on Freedom of Conscience and Religious Associations, enacted in 1997 under President Boris N. Yeltsin to define the state's relationship with religion, says respect should be accorded firstly to Orthodoxy, and secondly to Islam, Judaism, Buddhism and [non-Orthodox] Christianity.
Non-Orthodox Christian groups in Russia are seen as rooted in the United States in particular and the West in general, and competing with the Orthodox Church for membership. And both the government - for which a key priority is to protect "Holy Russia" from "foreign devils" - and the Orthodox Church, which is allegedly closely associated with the government, are anti-West.
The Russian government also seeks to restrict the functioning of independent organizations that are not allied with it or show any sign of dissent.
The relationship between the Kremlin (the official residence of the President) and the Orthodox Church is partly based on their common nationalistic ideology which seeks to restore Russia’s might after the Soviet Union's fall. The 1977 law on religious associations, commonly known as the religion law, was enacted at a time when missionaries from Protestant faiths in the West began working in Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
The Russian Orthodox Church was born in 988 AD with Prince Vladimir being baptized in the River Dnieper with all the inhabitants of Kiev. Since the conflict between the Patriarch of the East and the Pope of the West was at peak at the time, the Russian Church and people inherited the Eastern Church's antagonism to Rome and the West and shared its isolation from the Renaissance, the Reformation and the rise of modern concepts of social Christianity, explains a 1961 article by Paul B. Anderson in the Foreign Affairs magazine."
http://www.persecution.org/2012/10/05/why-russia-persecutes-non-orthodox-christians/
>> Notice the essential dishonesty of this response (well, ALL your responses are essentially dishonest). I cite articles talking about CATHOLICS and Protestants in the plural number, and you reduce it down to a single Priest you claim is a Nazi, and therefore, I suppose, deserves kidnapping. Tell me, thou enemy of Christendom, are all Non-ROC churches Nazi organizations? <<
I looked up the sole example in the primary news source that reported the issue. Yes, it’s an anecdote, but no, it’s not a cherry-picked anecdote. And since I *AM* a Catholic, obviously I don’t think that Catholic churches are typically Nazi... but this is the ONE priest that they actually interviewed. I can’t address any of the situations involving the other four Catholic priests who were detained because there is absolutely no other information about them, other than that they were quickly released.
>> However, people’s association with the Russian Orthodox Church is apparently more symbolic than representative of their commitment to the substance of the faith. This is perhaps why the church attendance is extremely low. <<
Church attendance is low in the ROC because it is not mandatory. The requirement for weekly Church attendance is a wise, but modern, Western requirement. Like divorce, I don’t approve, but I can’t condemn people as hypocrites when they don’t live up to standards that they don’t assert; all I can do is say “well, that’s (one reason) why I’m Catholic, not Orthodox.”
As a Catholic, I’m well experienced with Protestants presuming that any Catholic or Orthodox isn’t a Christian at all, and is presumptively guilty of idolatry, worshiping the anti-Christ, etc. These idiots frequently make outrageous, false assertions about the beliefs of others, and yes, Russia does protect the ROC — and other churches — from slander. Also, I’ve also encountered many idiots on FR presuming that communism is a product of the ROC, when the communists murdered 85,000 ROC priests, leaving only 1,000 alive. With these attitudes, I’m not in the slightest surprised that Russia doesn’t welcome them with open arms.
I want to make it clear that I do not approve of the treatment of the Holy Trinity Pentecostalist congregation, and that I recognize that ROC congregations would not be treated the same, but your sources do not include the fact that Moscow had been pressing the Church for seven years for leaving the building in an incomplete stage of construction for seventeen years, and they had been warned repeatedly not to occupy the premises, and that the illegal structure could be destroyed. That greying of the issue doesn’t make it right, but how does the incident compare with ministers being arrested in Canada and across Europe for objecting to gay marriage (for instance)? Where the howls of protest when the government of Canada seized all the Catholic schools in Quebec, and subjugated them to state control? Have any of the European nations which seized Catholic monasteries or church lands returned them? (No... and that’s just about every government in Europe went through their anti-clerical phase at one time or another.) Or how about the IRS constantly threatening churches which speak out against abortion, while black churches hold campaign rallies for Obama?
Not that two wrongs make a right, but the vitriol and hatred outpoured on Russia just seems a little out of scale to the wrongs committed in Russia... like your ridiculous example decrying Russia because Russian women are lured into slavery and pornography... by Americans in America for Americans.
This is stupid for a number of reasons, and I am quite sure that you are just making things up as you go along. Christians go to church frequently because they are Christians. If attendance is low, but self-proclamations are high, all you have is a culture of Orthodoxy, not actual Orthodoxy, as evidenced from the dark condition of Moscow itself, and the disease and murder that flows straight out of the Kremlin itself. I bolded the section since Russians tell me themselves a similar tale, most people in Russia declare themselves "Orthodox," even while they are atheists. It is a cultural thing, and these claims of Russia being a Christian country are merely the inventions of goobers who wink and nod at murder, fornication and robbery. Hence Alexandr Dugin, one of the freaks Putin puts on Russian state controlled media, notes that even Communists in Russia reflexively identify as Orthodox Monarchists:
“In the first stages of Zyuganov’s creation of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation (not without some participation on my part, as well as Prokhanov…), efforts were made to interpret and conceptually appraise the presence of the national component in the Soviet worldview (National Bolshevism), but this initiative was abandoned by the leadership of the [Communist Party], which had occupied itself with some other matters…. However, on the level of rhetoric and first reactions, Russian Communists in all senses present themselves as confirmed national conservatives – sometimes even as ‘Orthodox Monarchists.’” - Alexander Dugin, The Fourth Political Theory
As a Catholic, I’m well experienced with Protestants presuming that any Catholic or Orthodox isn’t a Christian at all, and is presumptively guilty of idolatry,
Another red herring from a dishonest infidel who, just a moment before, even apologized for divorce, and says nothing of the persecution by our contemporary reds of Catholic and Protestant churches.
You should go join your communist friends and become a Russian Orthodox, and then you too can avoid going to church and just sit around all day celebrating the murdering and raping of your new armed forces.
“Dishonest infidel”? LOL! That explains the fixation on Chechnya! You’re one of those Mooselimbs! Now that you’ve gone completely silly, I think I’m done here. Say Hi to George Soros for me!
FYI, your butt-boy Putin aids and abets the nuclear development of Iran, and a great many other of our enemies across the world besides. You are an anti-American and an apologist for Putin, and all true red blooded Americans must learn to shun the Liberaltarians and Putinists of the world. They are useful idiots even more dangerous than the leftists, since they masquerade as right-wingers.
Are you even American? You use a lot of peculiar phrases that sound like you work for one of those propaganda bases.
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