Posted on 05/12/2014 11:23:13 AM PDT by Academiadotorg
George Mason economics professor Bryan Caplan, at the libertarian think tank Cato Institute, said that college is not worth it for both taxpayers and for low-performing students coming out of high school. He examined it with two important questions:
Is college worthwhile for the student and is it a good investment? Is college a good investment for taxpayers?
Caplan said, “Education is a wasteful arms race, the more you get, the more you need to avoid looking like a loser.” For example, “in 1945, only about 25% of Americans over the age of 25 finished high school.” One used to impress parents and others that you graduated high school, said Caplan, but “not so anymore.” The reason behind this societal change is, “not so much because the jobs that people do have changed radically, but rather, the credentials of the competition have gone up, and you need to match them in order to continue to impress.”
Caplan found that college graduates do indeed make up to 83% more in salaries than do high school graduates. Nevertheless, he avers, “high ability students tend to do the hard majors that pay well.” Thus, Caplan states, “Engineering majors not only have higher quantitative SAT scores than English majors, they have higher verbal scores than engineering majors.” Caplan calls the difference in wages between college and high school graduates “the education premium” and finds that it varies widely between “soft” studies and harder disciplines. In other words, “the education premium ranges from 24% in education majors…whereas getting a bachelors’ degree will increase your earnings by about 60%,” Caplan explains.
He noted that while most engineering students “don’t see the light of day” in college, other majors “enjoy life” on campus because “most majors are not remotely vocational,” or difficult.
I just find this ridiculous. If you can do a trade fine. If you can run a successful business fine. But if you need a professional job even a secretary for a company they are going to require at least a bachelor’s Degree. And if you want a civil service job, you better have a Master’s Degree.
But only if you're smart and dedicated.
And you can't pick the cert up in college.
Children of acquaintances, coworkers and extended family are just about all doing transfer credits from community college, then finishing up a four year degree at a state university. Cost is truly out of hand and does not represent a value. That does not mean it’s not a requirement in many fields. It does mean, however, that less costly means to the same end are being pursued vigorously. Half a lifetime of debt servitude is no way to live, and the opportunities are just not there in most of the country to help pay it down.
And the unemployment rate for both is 0.0% nationwide.
College is worth it for hard skills, e.g. accounting, brain surgery and engineering.
That’s about it.
“Engineering majors not only have higher quantitative SAT scores than English majors, they have higher verbal scores than engineering majors.”
Tell me how anyone could run a business without expertise in the following critical areas:
1. “The Phallus”
Occidental College. A seminar in critical theory and social justice, this class examines Sigmund Freud, phallologocentrism and the lesbian phallus.
2. “Queer Musicology”
UCLA. This course welcomes students from all disciplines to study what it calls an “unruly discourse” on the subject, understood through the works of Cole Porter, Pussy Tourette and John Cage.
3. “Taking Marx Seriously”
Amherst College. This advanced seminar for 15 students examines whether Karl Marx still matters despite the countless interpretations and applications of his ideas, or whether the world has entered a post-Marxist era.
4. “Adultery Novel”
University of Pennsylvania. Falling in the newly named “gender, culture and society” major, this course examines novels and films of adultery such as “Madame Bovary” and “The Graduate” through Marxist, Freudian and feminist lenses.
5. “Blackness”
Occidental College. Critical race theory and the idea of “post-blackness” are among the topics covered in this seminar course examining racial identity. A course on whiteness is a prerequisite.
6. “Border Crossings, Borderlands: Transnational Feminist Perspectives on Immigration”
University of Washington. This women studies department offering takes a new look at recent immigration debates in the U.S., integrating questions of race and gender while also looking at the role of the war on terror.
7. “Whiteness: The Other Side of Racism”
Mount Holyoke College. The educational studies department offers this first-year, writing-intensive seminar asking whether whiteness is “an identity, an ideology, a racialized social system,” and how it relates to racism.
8. “Native American Feminisms”
University of Michigan. The women’s studies and American culture departments offer this course on contemporary Native American feminism, including its development and its relation to struggles for land.
9. “’Mail Order Brides?’ Understanding the Philippines in Southeast Asian Context”
Johns Hopkins University. This history course — cross-listed with anthropology, political science and studies of women, gender and sexuality — is limited to 35 students and asks for an anthropology course as a prerequisite.
10. “Cyberfeminism”
Cornell University. Cornell’s art history department offers this seminar looking at art produced under the influence of feminism, post-feminism and the Internet.
11. “American Dreams/American Realities”
Duke University. Part of Duke’s Hart Leadership Program that prepares students for public service, this history course looks at American myths, from “city on the hill” to “foreign devil,” in shaping American history.
12. “Nonviolent Responses to Terrorism”
Swarthmore College. Swarthmore’s “peace and conflict studies” program offers this course that “will deconstruct ‘terrorism’ “ and “study the dynamics of cultural marginalization” while seeking alternatives to violence.
I went to COBOL school in 1983 for ten months at a cost of around $2,300. Without any college, that worked into a $125 an hour position by 2001, but I confess that before that one it was only $55 an hour...
Yes you are correct. As a former college professor I can tell you that in our society as it stands today you need a college degree or a trade school certification. Otherwise you will be waiting tables at an Olive Garden. A high school diploma will not get you far in life in 2014.
It depends on how you define “worth it”. Maybe in strictly economic terms, it’s not. However, if you’ve always dreamed of becoming, say, a lawyer (why anyone would dream of that is beyond me, but just for the sake of argument), you would certainly say that your college education was worth it, even if that’s not true in an economic sense.
Sure, you can make a decent, or even a good living economically without a college degree. However, does that really matter to you if all you’ve ever wanted to do is become a teacher, nurse, doctor, lawyer, or a scientist? College would obviously be worth it to those who dream of doing professions like those.
That's a bad year to compare since it is at the end of WW2. A better comparison would be to either before the war in 1941 or well after the war in 1949. Many who would have finished high school by 1945 fought instead.
Thus, Caplan states, “Engineering majors not only have higher quantitative SAT scores than English majors, they have higher verbal scores than engineering majors.” Caplan calls the difference in wages between college and high school graduates “the education premium” and finds that it varies widely between “soft” studies and harder disciplines. In other words, “the education premium ranges from 24% in education majors…whereas getting a bachelors’ degree will increase your earnings by about 60%,” Caplan explains.
Huh? Engineering majors have higher verbal SAT scores than engineering majors? And the last part of that paragraph looks like it missing something because it sounds like education majors don't get bachelors' degrees.
I employ dozens of HS graduates only...and all over $50/hr.
Amherst College. This advanced seminar for 15 students examines whether Karl Marx still matters despite the countless interpretations and applications of his ideas, or whether the world has entered a post-Marxist era.
KGB Operative/Soviet defector, Yuri Alexander Bezmenov in a 1985 video:
“Ideological subversion is the process which is legitimate overt and open, you can see it with your own eyes. All you can do, all Americans needs to do is to unplug their bananas from their ears, open up their eyes and they can see. There is no mystery. It has nothing to do with espionage…. It's a great brainwashing process which goes very slow and is divided into four basic stages. The first one being demoralization. It takes from fifteen to twenty years to demoralize a nation. Why that many years? Because this is the minimum number of years required to educate one generation of students in the country of your enemy, exposed to the ideology of the enemy. In other words, Marxism, Leninism ideology is being pumped into the soft heads of at least three generations of American students, without being challenged or contra-balanced by the basic values of Americanism, American patriotism….
It has devolved into a very expensive welfare system for academics.
Skilled craftsmen all need apprenticeship training for Master’s Licenses for Electrial, Mechanical, Plumbing, Fire Suppression/Sprinkler Fitter and the like. Many intelligent kids who should be getting into those trades take a three to five year 75k detour through liberal arts colleges. Most could skip it and make 50 to 90k after journeyman status even before a Master’s License test.
People going into sales don’t need a BA, they need a 90 day course on Grooming and Decorum.
People going into many Healthcare supporting roles need Vo-
Tec type training.
Basic accounting, business forms, letter writing, HR basic, cost accounting and a payroll course could get most people ready for the business world in two semesters.
You one in a million.
Engineering majors have higher verbal SAT scores than engineering majors English majors.
Hardly.
It's the nature of the tech business.
That's not to say these guys are dumb, they just don't have traditional education.
To obtain a CCIE cert one would need an IQ of at least 125 and 10 years of work/study.
We need factories that make products for the U.S..(businessmen)
We need people to work in those factories.
(Blue collar workers)
We need people to be able to support and repair those machines.
(specialists and engineers)
And those factories will need other smaller establishments from parts suppliers to diners.
In the end, anyone that wants work will be able to get it.
We dont need more English, Art, Philosophy, Gender/Queer studies graduates, because they are becoming a net drain on the economy.
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