Civil War in Ukraine (But Please Don't Call it That!)

Townhall.com ^ | May 4, 2014 | Mike Shedlock

[Kaslin]

A civil war is underway in Ukraine. Curiously, no one has labeled it as such even though the Ukrainian government launched an offensive, helicopters were shot down, dozens were killed in the process, and military operations took place in multiple cities.

[FreeReign]

I hate being a Putin apologist. And I am no fan of Vlad. But, the Nato countries have been pressing further and further towards the Russian borders.

NATO has nothing to do with it. Ukraine didn't want to become a part of NATO. No side in Ukraine was for that.

[GeronL]

Russia vs Ukraine is not a civil war

[ansel12]

The name the enemy uses for itself, isn’t what threatens us and the world.

[ansel12]

It is mind blowing, and there must be a lot us, especially of the age group and Cold War warriors, and Reagan crowd, that are having our minds blown by seeing all this Russia/Putin worship, and their military goals and interests being placed in front of ours, and even hero worship of the enemy’s leader.

[Syncro]

I hate being a Putin apologist.

But then you exhibit the traits of one with your next statements.

If someone kept moving their guns closer and closer to your border—and you hadn't been making any moves towards them

Your knowledge of the Soviet/Russian mindset is sorely lacking

What Putin does out in the open is the tip of the iceberg, his actions not known to you are in the direction towards world domination, same as Hitler's were and Islam is in this time period.

We stuck our nose in his business, and he is slapping it back pretty hard.

Don't include most of here in your "we." If you (and Obama) have his stinging handprint on your cheek that's on you

[1rudeboy]

It's gotten to the point where our Russian friends accuse us of not evolving. Adding to the irony? Obama's foreign policy ostensibly is "evolved," and Putin's is right from a 50+ year old Soviet playbook.

[Syncro]

Heh...

[Always A Marine]

Not trying to cause a fight, but how do you feel about these small countries watching Russia press farther and farther west?

Exactly where is Russia pressing westward?

[1rudeboy]

South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Crimea . . . .

[ansel12]

Communist Party USA says hands off Ukraine
“The Communist Party USA expresses its alarm at the fast moving developments in the Ukraine, and calls upon the people of the United States to insist that our government back off from a pattern of interference that does not serve the interests of either the Ukrainian or the U.S. people.”

The Communist Party USA demands that:

The United States government refrain from words and actions that infringe on the national sovereignty of the Ukrainian people.
The United States government, and individual U.S. politicians and officials, cease to associate themselves with fascists and anti-Semites in the Ukraine, or anywhere. Rather, they should denounce them and their works.
The United States cease to carry out policies that could well lead to a dangerous confrontation in the Black Sea area, and not give aid or comfort to politicians who wish to create trouble between the Ukrainian and Russian peoples.

[Wallace T.]

Because Obama is so obnoxious and leftist some conservatives tend to look upon Putin as the lesser of two evils. Especially since Putin has embraced Russian Orthodoxy publicly and has denounced the homosexual agenda, in contrast to our government and culture being increasingly hostile to Christianity and supportive of sexual perversion and degeneracy, it is understandable that Russia seems the “good guy”. The French Right had the same feeling when their nation was ruled by a leftist coalition in the 1930s. Better Hitler than Blum (Leon Blum, the French prime minister) was their cry. Perhaps the sudden collapse of French forces in World War II was due to rightist Frenchmen who refused to fight for a leftist regime. The French Right made a huge mistake. Let's hope American conservatives don't make a similar error.

If Russia moves against the Baltic states and Poland, both of which were under their thumb under the Tsars and Stalin, we would be obligated to fight. Would our patriotic soldiers put up much of a fight for Obama or a liberal successor? Better Putin than Obama?

[Always A Marine]

South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Crimea . . . .

All three of those examples are to Russia's south, not to the west. South Ossetia and Abkhazia were struggling for independence from Georgia well before Russia countered and ceased NATO's meddling there in 2008. Those hardly qualify as conquests by Moscow.

Crimea is absolutely vital to Russia's strategic southern defense, and its seizure was a defensive reaction to the February coup in Kiev. We were dreaming to believe that Russia would allow its sole warm water port at Sevastopol and its surrounding air bases in Crimea to fall into NATO's hands. All that Russia's annexation of Crimea did was preserve the military status quo.

Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, NATO has added 12 new member nations in Central and Eastern Europe, and is now positioned along the borders of Russia itself. I'm still looking for any examples of Russia's westward expansion.

[Vermont Lt]

Well the US backed the revolution.

I know of the Soviet Union much better than most. Putin is not going to attack NATO. He would get slapped back to Siberia.

As weak as our military is getting, the Russians are weaker.

The big battles will be in the banks do Switzerland, London, and New York. And we will get our asses handed to us.

[1rudeboy]

Good grief. A professor of Semantics, with multiple degrees in Excuse-Making.

[Vermont Lt]

But NATO wanted them, and control of the gas lines.

We stuck our nose under the tent. Putin will not tolerate us playing on ground that has traditionally been Russian territory.

[ansel12]

That is based too much on thinking this is something that just suddenly was created in these posters because the republicans are out of office.

This anti-Americanism from these posters didn’t just spring up because we have a democrat president, and while you mention the (mostly Catholic) worship of Putin re installing a corrupt state church that oppresses Protestantism, much of the anti-Americanism is coming from the anti-God libertarians who just want to surrender.

Remember that the libertarians hated Reagan, as did the left.

[ansel12]

If Russia moves against the Baltic states and Poland, both of which were under their thumb under the Tsars and Stalin, we would be obligated to fight. Would our patriotic soldiers put up much of a fight for Obama or a liberal successor? Better Putin than Obama?

By the way, were you implying that our troops would refuse to fight the Russian strong man?

Are you one of these nut cases?

[ansel12]

We stuck our nose under the tent. Putin will not tolerate us playing on ground that has traditionally been Russian territory.

Well comrade, the free world doesn't exist to please mother Russia, and now that Reagan is dead, submit to her aggression and empire building.

[Syncro]

Well the US backed the revolution

No we didn't.

That was Obama and his pack of sycophants.

Same as in the Mideast, Obama backed the Islamic terrorists/Muslim Brotherhood. He had to or he would have caught holy he!! from his top advisor, Muslim Brotherhood member Valerie Jarrett.

Putin is not going to attack NATO

I never said he was.

And we will get our asses handed to us.

Sorry I can't relate with a "we" from what Obama does or causes.

No Constitutional Republic Tea Party type Conservative will put up with having their "asses handed" them.

[1rudeboy]

I always knew that most of Ron Paul’s strongest supporters were isolationists. Didn’t bother me at all. But for them to jump like lemmings off the cliff for Vladimir Putin, when he is acting like a “globalist?” Too weird.