Posted on 05/02/2014 8:28:00 PM PDT by Mariner
Slavyansk, Ukraine (CNN) -- Deadly street fighting, helicopters shot down and civilians being used as human shields.
That was the picture that emerged Friday in southern Ukraine as violence escalated amid reports that dozens of people were killed in a fire and still more were shot dead or wounded in street fighting, raising the question of whether the country can stave off a possible civil war.
The violence -- pitting pro-Russian separatists against Ukrainian forces and those who support the government in Kiev -- prompted an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council, with Russia demanding an end to what it called Ukrainian aggression and Western powers accusing Moscow of funding the violence.
Russia and the West have squared off diplomatically over the fate of Ukraine, after Moscow annexed Crimea in March following the ouster of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych. He was pushed from office after months of protests by people upset that he had turned away from Europe in favor of Russia.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...
I get it.
The Russians and their people in Ukraine are not good guys.
Neither is the other side.
Honestly, I’m not convinced of that.
I think there is a lot of manipulated unrest and Russian agents on the ground in the Eastern Ukraine.
"How else do you explain the two helicopters being shot down so quickly?"
I know it's not a popular opinion, but the "government" in Kiev admitted over the past few weeks that numerous armories had been taken over in the Eastern Ukraine.
Why is it any surprise that a helicopter is shot down when those armories had to have supplies of both MANPADS and anti-tank missiles? It's not like you have to be some sort of uber brain to operate the new ones, you follow the aircraft, wait for the lock signal, and pull the trigger.
That's exactly why countries worry about terrorists getting them and shooting down airliners, they're easy to operate and very effective.
Yeah, that's what puts me closer to the second premise.
I think MOST of the folk in those regions want to be with mother Russia.
Hell, Russia built Odessa from the ground up and has controlled the Crimea for over 2 centuries.
I don't underestimate Russia and their aid to the separatists a bit, it's just that realistically they don't have to do nearly as much as they're accused of to have everything keep going their way. The Ukrainians have been on the verge of tearing one another up for a long time and now they have the chance.
Sh!t's been brewing for a couple of hundred years.
There's never been a united "Ukraine" that covers all this territory...and was independent of Russia.
Never.
I wouldn’t disagree with that.
Operatives from both sides are to be expected IMO.
The self-defense forces of eastern Ukraine are more than capable of holding their own.
Urban combat is not what armies like to do. In Stalingrad, during World War II, the German army was ground up like sausage as the Russians gave no quarter and made them fight for every inch of the city. We all know the outcome.
If the Maidan regime is foolish enough to try it - its downfall is simply a matter of time.
I’ve paid attention to the situation extremely closely since Fall of last year and done much research.
I believe meddling was and is being done on both sides ( Russia and the West ) but Russia’s security services ( GRU and FSB primarily ) have and are currently deeply imbedded in Ukraine government past and present.
Further, there is Yanukovych’s involvement via his ‘Family’ and criminal cohorts who are believed to be largely financing the ‘protests’ in the East and the South.
Regardless of where the money is coming from, Russia is coordinating and manufacturing instability with the main objectives of creating referendum votes and stopping the national May 25 vote.
Though there are legitimate grievances on both sides of Ukraine, the original student protests for the integration into the EU ( a fantasy for a very long time to come ) morphed into a fight for freedom, democracy, a government and businesses free from corruption/crime. Yes the West in general wanted closer ties to Europe and the East to maintain ties to Russia, BUT neither side wanted or even according to even recent polls want to split or join Russia.
A matter of a few weeks, at best.
They're done.
Russia is not going to put up with what's going on, even if they DID start it.
Obamalini’s administration and the EU were the force behind the initial coup, which got all of this going.
“Russia started this,”
Again, that is incorrect.
Russia is REACTING to this, a situation created by the NGO’s, USAID, and the US State Department. That they are outsmarting the Obama Administration’s incompetent ideologues should come as no surprise to anyone paying attention.
To say anything else is simply denying the facts in evidence.
I'm not so sure about that. I think the people there would like to be independent if not still part of the Ukraine. Now, to be sure, Russia wants them to think that's impossible and as of the Ukrainian Army rolling in, the Ukraine government is playing into Russian hands.
An edict from a "government" that was installed by mob rule isn't sufficient to show good faith to people who don't agree that they're the government in the first place. If neutral negotiators of some sort had gone in with Army clearly at their backs things would be a lot different. As it is, there hasn't been any real effort to calm the situation down, just edicts from Kiev in between screams for help from foreign troops.
Once the Army of "your own country" starts shooting at you, though, things get polarized really, really fast. That's why the mob in Kiev who could have waited a few months for elections, egged things on until police were fried alive and someone started shooting demonstrators. At this point, who really knows if the targets were people preparing or lighting Molotovs, people with bullhorns someone thought were leaders, or random protesters?
I for one don't believe a word out of the mouths of the people in Kiev since they lied about the Paratroop Brigade one day and dis-banned them the next. They're clearly no different than the democrat media in our country, they make up whatever they think will get them through the day. The thing is, the mob in Kiev kept ratcheting up the situation until police were burned alive and people were shot.
Now, true to form, the same people the mob put in power have racheted up the situation by sending the Ukrainian Army in to fight Ukrainian civilians. The people now in charge very clearly want a war because they think that's the way to get foreign troops in to keep them in power and they know they can't hold on to power without that intervention.
Yep, that's the truth right there.
Some fascist/communist/imperialist government somewhere far from Kiev will be calling the shots.
For as far as the eye can see.
Whatever will the little islamist do?
Yeah, pretty much the case.
Golf.
What else can be done? We sure don't want him getting any ideas.
They want a federal state. But if Kiev is not prepared to negotiate a new compact, independence is an option.
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