Posted on 05/02/2014 3:12:06 PM PDT by tcrlaf
Ukraine’s National Guard is reportedly storming the eastern town of Kramatorsk. Meanwhile, the army has resumed its special operation in Slavyansk, where two soldiers have been killed.
“The assault is starting now,” a Kramatorsk self-defense activist has told RIA Novosti by phone. Another activist told the news agency that the National Guard opened fire on self-defense forces.
Dozens have been killed or injured in Kramatorsk, a doctor told RIA Novosti. The medic added that the fighting has now stopped and all of those injured have been taken to hospitals in Kramatorsk and Slavyansk. At least two died on the way to the hospital, she said.
(Excerpt) Read more at rt.com ...
But I'm not sure you are capable of actually giving any kind of a specific about any thing you say without looking like a fool. For example, can you please point out what my "strawman" is and explain in a logical way how it is a strawman? Your method here is so blatant that I know perfectly well you are trying to deceive people into thinking you know what you're doing.
There are seven or more of these trolls on here....doing nothing to offer facts or anything to confirm their stance. Simply quoting the Maidan jargon and agin without proof or anything to back their remarks up.
So you see they aren’t interested in more than slamming people....wonder of they’re closet Nazi’s?????
So, the Muslim Brotherhood was responding to armed thugs sent by a foreign enemy trying to take over with violence? Got a link for that?
The tactics and behavior in Odessa and other areas strongly resembles when the right sector thugs hijacked the Maidan in the beginning...that’s when the violence began in full.
I'm pretty sure the violence began with Berkut and the murders, but, I wouldn't want to stop you on a roll.
The Putinists have been saying this more and more lately in threads, but they don't actually respond to these "trolls" they mention or dispute any specific facts. So, what facts are you disputing? Can you point to something in the thread specifically? Don't just say something random. Quote someone.
Great post. Thanks for taking the time.
Which side do you think wants these elections to go forward most? I think it is safe to say the ethnic Ukranian side. A quick look at Wikipedia shows that over 75% of Ukrainians are of ethnic Ukrainian decent. Only 17.3% are of Russian ethnicity. And the Russian's actions of late have almost certainly hardened the opinion of ethnic Ukranians to look to the West. Putin may have grabbed the Crimea, but my guess is he's lost ethnic Ukranians for perhaps generations.
As to your other points, I really wouldn't mind too terribly if the solidly ethnic Russian areas were allowed to vote to secede and join Russia. Maybe that is what it would take to resolve this, but make no mistake the result would be the permanent loss to Russia of most of it's "Ukranian buffer zone" - at least until they invade it again (which is precisely why the remainder of Ukraine would immediately try to join NATO and the EU with renewed vigor). Perhaps a few areas would even go with the Russians, but my feeling is that support for joining Russia is vastly overstated even in the most Eastern regions. Don't think a lot of this separatist activity isn't being engineered by Russian operatives, special forces, coordination, etc.
Look, the Russians have their own interests. I don't blame them for that. China has its own interests too, as do all nations. My biggest gripe is with this naive idiot we have in the White House who thought he was the golden (err, half black) boy who could just talk his way into everyone loving us. This kumbaya garbage just doesn't work.
Putin, in my view, has played a masterful hand so far with poor cards. Russia isn't that strong, and most of its army is 3rd world rabble (albeit with some great equipment they can't afford to maintain properly or train enough with). He can't project power in any meaningful way and his economy isn't that strong. While it may not appear that way now, Putin has taken his country backward in the long run. Whatever "democracy" was taking root has been nearly wiped out, there is no longer any free press, dissent has been squashed almost entirely - none of this is good for the Russian people in the long term. Perhaps Putin knows this and believes the one thing he can do is seize territory and rebuild the old empire, then try to run with the China model of allowing free markets with no political freedom.
.....”John Kerry attacks RT during Ukraine address”....
ROTFLOL...well then we should believe him....????? (Sarc)
I’d becareful speaking in terms of “ethnicities.” As a matter of fact, there were ethnic Russians, Ukrainians, even ethnic arabs and Jews who took part in the Maidan. Ukraine is a far more diverse country than the media lets on. It is more accurate to say that most Ukrainians, of whatever ethnicity, support a united Ukraine, even in the East and South, as polls have shown. These people who don’t you will likely find either at the bottom of society, or are communists and other weirdos, who can be bought or persuaded to support the Kremlin by Russian GRU. The Kremlin has likely planned this operation for years, by the way, with lots of agents in place they planned to activate in the event that Ukraine shook off their hold and gravitated to the west.
“....wonder of they’re closet Nazi’s?????”
No, a couple sound like 12 year olds.
Most likely they are somehow connected to Right Sector/Svoboda. Not ONE of them is willing to tell us WHO MaidanPR really is.
We saw this exact same kind of spamming before Tunisia, before Libya, and before Egypt, if you will recall.
Points taken, and I think your broader comments are probably quite accurate.
It is my guess that Russia is going to have more trouble than people think at even keeping the Crimea quiet - at least without severe repression. Once things settle down and people have trouble converting currency, getting daily goods, acquiring supplies for their businesses, withdrawing money from the bank, etc, we may see a lot of anti Russian activity that will force Putin to devote resources just to keep that one area pacified.
too funny
“The Kremlin has likely planned this operation for years, by the way, with lots of agents in place”
Being a former Soviet State, I have no doubt at all that Ukraine is riddled with people willing to give, or sell, info to the Russians. Especially the mafias.
That said, the US even has a “plan” for the invasion of Canada, should that ever become needed.
That Russia had a plan to move on Crimea should anything happen in Ukraine shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone, given its strategic importance.
It wasn’t until the US gave Putin the OPPORTUNITY to move on Crimea, that he did. Russian intelligence isn’t stupid, they knew this was coming, and EXACTLY who was behind it.
That Putin is now using that to his advantage shouldn’t surprise anyone, either.
lol...
Aren’t you supposed to punch Seinfeld, now?
You should check some of the work by KGB defectors, counter-spies and other Soviet analysis. When we speak of the Kremlin having "plans," we mean plans they are actually going to use and are working to bring about. To watchers of the Kremlin, none of the behavior by Russia is actually a surprise. Until the hidden soviet structures in Russia are dismantled, the special services of that country and its military will remain a mortal threat to the West.
That Russia had a plan to move on Crimea should anything happen in Ukraine shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone, given its strategic importance.
You might as well say that a liberal, or a socialist leadership in Canada will trigger an American invasion and annexation using astro-turf separatists and U.S. special forces wearing ski-masks.
According to a representative of the Crimean Tatars, he was told that if the Tatars did not fall in line, that there would be repercussions and even "disappearances." I think repression is inevitable.
Last I checked, “losing” Canada wouldn’t cut us off from our only warm weather port, would it?
So, if Canada cut us off from a port of some kind, or some other resource, it's okay to murder and pillage them to get that access? This is imperialism, and if Russia is really a peaceful country, it should operate under the rule of law and maintain its treaties and other agreements, rather than violating them through invasion and illegal seizure.
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