Posted on 05/01/2014 11:56:15 AM PDT by Sub-Driver
Pure nitrogen atmosphere. Cheap, easy, painless.
mark
Serious question. Do you believe, if murder were a crime that resulted set punishment of a short prison stay rather than CP, that many liberals would not be suddenly very pro gun and hunting Christians/conservatives?
Because the only thing that keeps many of them from doing it now is the potential for loss of their own life. Look at how easily people kill the world over in places where there is no CP. Look at how cheap life had become.
“why do we not just put a mask or sealed helmet on them and pump in nitrogen in small volumes until unconscious then increase volume until dead. Should take about 4-5 minutes tops.”
Deprive the gas being administered of all carbon dioxide and it might work even faster...and mix in a bit of prussic acid...
They want a lethal injection?
The DEA seizes lots of heroin.
Provide a supply to the States that have executions.
Inject a massive overdose.
Criminal will pass out and die.
...Also demonstrates to the public how deadly heroin can be.
Cry me a river!
You have to ask, What's the point of punishment? Is it for the sake of justice or morality? Then I say that's been taken care of 2000 years ago.
So what do you do with a criminal? IMO, the first job of civil law is to protect society from dangerous criminals. So incarceration for criminals dangerous to society is mandatory with a reformed penal code and prison system that makes the prisoner productive and pay his way and don't let dangerous criminals out.
Nitrogen asphyxiation
Do you think thieves should not be punished?
Would you require crimes that do require prisonment to protect society to remain in prison until a demonstrated change of heart? Would you require those who don’t remain in prison forever regardless of the crime committed?
Christ died for our souls, our salvation, not for our time on earth.
A bit messy, though. But it should satisfy all "cruel and unusual" arguments. IMO
Although totally off point, why call me a bleeding heart liberal? Liberals - socialists (I hate calling them "liberals" since they have little to do with liber-ty) - engender a culture of death and seek more government to ply their trade. My argument is one for life and less government.
Ok, if you wish, we can do away with the “bleeding heart liberal” part. I still think that it is people like you who are the reason this execution was botched and the prisoner suffered? Drug companies are afraid of being openly involved with executions, probably concerned about boycotts, so they refuse to sell the drugs that enabled the states to kill painlessly.
Again, as I've explained, not for reasons of morality or justice but I think there's validation for the state to require reasonable payback to the victim. (The victim himself of course can also go after him in civil court.)
Would you require crimes that do require prisonment to protect society to remain in prison until a demonstrated change of heart? Would you require those who don’t remain in prison forever regardless of the crime committed?
I mean, these are good questions, the kind of questions that should be asked, considered, and debated. IMO, the issue would be the nature of the crime and the physical or pecuniary danger the criminal posed to society. If it were a crime of financial harm but no physical harm, it seems like a valid approach could be reasonable forced payback from either inside prison or outside or both, depending on the circumstances of the crime and the individual.
As I've said, the penal code/prison system and concept needs to be lifted from the dark ages. Rehab should be an important feature. All prisoners should be productive and pay their way. That right there has rehabilitative qualities. There should be enlightened, voluntary, solid, rehab programs that have a spiritual element to them. Maybe a step-by-step program where positive behavior and productivity on the inside could lead to trial runs on the outside. Something genuinely usable as a gauge for real change in an otherwise dangerous criminal. IMO, the first priority should always be protecting society and, secondly, real rehabilitation of the convict.
Christ died for our souls, our salvation, not for our time on earth.
I think the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ could and should be effectively applied in a free and civil society.
Well, I guess you’d have to find enough “people like me” and connect the dots with evidence to prove your theory. Sounds a bit far-fetched to me. However, I know government could pretty easily contract with a drug company in such a way that would override any qualms they might have. But again, this is trying to figure out the right way to do the wrong thing.
I do see that answering the question. There are crimes that don't leave a situation for payback.
My question: Is punishment a reasonable response by the state for crimes. I believe it is more than protecting the society. Punishment provides a deterrent against future time. Punishment of crimes is a state/society responsibility. Do you agree?
To all those here who incessantly harp for tortuous means of execution remember that the means of execution says more about the civilization than the crime.
Our founders knew this.
That said....a proper long drop hanging is sound.
Technically though gruesome....the guillotine is fail proof with proper weighted and sharpened blade
France executed 10,000s with rarely a malfunction...none if machine properly maintained
Burma used elephant foot crush.....other SE Asians did too..
Likely foolproof as well but PETA would howl
Is punishment a reasonable response by the state for crimes. I believe it is more than protecting the society. Punishment provides a deterrent against future time. Punishment of crimes is a state/society responsibility.
IMO, "punishment" doesn't go anywhere. It looks back and generally applies to the unredeemed morality or justice of "eye-for-eye" and not much else. It doesn't look to the future nor does it care. I think the (mis)use of "punishment" is the reason prisons are the go-nowhere, miserable places they are. "Punishment" seems to be the main justification for sentencing and imprisonment. Therefore like punishment, prisons have no vision, no hope. IMO, and I think the record also shows, punishment is an exercise in futility.
As far as deterrents go, I think productive incarceration is as much of a deterrent as anything else, yet it yields potentially positive outcomes. The collateral effects of loss of freedom because of productive incarceration would seem deterrent enough. Why use backward-looking, vision-less "punishment" as a deterrent when forward-looking productive incarceration for protection and relevant payback also serves as a deterrent?
I guess part of what I'm saying is when the prison system revolves around "punishment", then prison, like punishment, becomes a dead-end street, as it is today. But if the prison system revolved around protecting society, productivity, reasonable payback, and rehab, I think we'd see vast improvement in conditions and results. And if someone is "deterrable" (some are not) both would seem to serve that purpose, but one with much better results.
I vote rope. Re-usable, saves taxpayers money.
In my opinion, you are ignoring reality.
Step back to smaller crimes. If there was no punishment, can you imagine driving our our highways, trying to keep people from stealing.
Children who don't receive punishment for breaking rules have no sense of control. Too many adults are the same way.
Forward-looking policies of protection, correction, and reasonable monetary restitution might often come to exactly the same consequence as "punishment" (ex. taking away your driver's license for repeated driving offenses). But the reasons and approaches and attitudes are different.
For reckless endangerment, for example, corrective action could include banishment from driving altogether until rehab is completed and verified. You limit yourself with backward-looking "punishment" whereas other options open up many more effective alternatives.
The state of your current prison system should wake you up to the reality that "punishment" is a useless exercise in futility that goes nowhere.
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