Posted on 04/29/2014 1:57:58 PM PDT by TurboZamboni
LITTLE FALLS, Minn. (AP/WCCO) — The Little Falls, Minn. man who shot and killed two teenagers after they broke into his home has been found guilty of all four counts of premeditated murder. After roughly three hours of deliberation, the jury found 65-year-old Byron Smith guilty of two counts of first-degree murder and two counts of second-degree murder for the shooting deaths of 18-year-old Haile Kifer and 17-year-old Nick Brady.
(Excerpt) Read more at minnesota.cbslocal.com ...
Had those two not invaded that house, they’d:
1. Would be alive.
2. Would not have been tortured.
3. Would not have been raped.
What’s interesting in all of this is the consensus that Smith was crazy.
If so, he had a legal defense. Regardless, it isn’t something the perps planned on when they invaded the house. It’s another risk. They picked a guy so sick of people getting away with murder, rape, knock-out games, theft, and arson, that he weighed the matter and took the law into his own hands.
In absence of a diagnosis that he’s crazy, it sounds like Smith is only a danger to people who invade his house, and not the rest of the law-abiding community.
If he was crazy, then he should have been found not guilty by reason of mental defect.
Again, had they not invaded the house, nothing would have happened.
Looking at this from an historical standpoint, this is what happens when the people no longer believe the state provides the deterrent required to enforce the social contract. When that happens, this is what happens.
Steal from a gang? Expect torture and rape. It’s an incredibly effective hedge against inventory shrinkage, accounting discrepancies between goods sold and revenue recorded, etc.
Kiddie rape? Go to gen pop and see what happens. Nobody bats an eye at the systematic rape of inmates. It’s a running inside joke.
We have turned every citizen into a perpetrator, and the courts have failed to fulfill their responsibilities.
In Europe they used to hang pirates and move their dangling corpses into the harbor where other pirates could see them as they approached.
This man, Smith, saved the taxpayers money. He made his community safer. I’ll bet these two had a rap sheet too. Probably a long one. As such, what effect would arresting them and taking them to trial have on preventing future home invasions.
Maybe the next crew of idiots decides to rob a bank instead. You can do it pretty readily. No fuss no muss, no chance of getting raped or tortured.
Bottom line: Invade someone’s home, they should expect to die. They should plan on it. These two? Unlucky. He was minding his own business, whacked out of his mind crazy, and they pick his house to invade. Raped, tortured, and killed.
They brought it on themselves. He’d still be free had they just obeyed the law.
Sincerely, you believe this? Join the Taliban.
Had they left him alone, he could have simply gone on fantasizing about the day somebody finally decided to invade his home.
Somebody did, and the whacked-out maniac’s dream came true.
Unlucky for our two heroes, poor little kids.
Same adorable moppets stabbing, shooting and raping people in Central Park last week. They’re 12 though, so by all means, call the cops and have them arrested and sent to trial.
Next year their records will be sealed, and they’ll have a clean rap sheet when they go out and do it again.
This is the same sort of mentality behind ‘reasoning’ with Islamic fundamentalists. There’s no social contract, no middle ground, no shared sense of responsibility that allows each of the parties to quietly coexist, peacefully pursuing whatever commercial and personal interests desired.
You don’t steal from a gang PRECISELY because they will rape, then torture, then kill you. They will make a point of displaying the corpse conspicuously such that anyone else noodling over doing something similar might have a moment of pause.
The courts have failed, and the average citizen has been criminalized. As you sit there reading this you are guilty of any number of crimes. All it takes is someone to press the issue and away you go.
A man had his business taken from him, and he was fined $2.5M for words he uttered in private, which is a crime, of course. Innocent of any crime, the guy is ruined by a perpetrator who leaked a recording she took without his knowledge. TMZ? It’s going to profit huge.
You aren’t getting it somehow. Had they not done this, they’d still be here planning some other crime. Smith would still be a whackadoodle, but he’d be a free one.
I feel sorry for Smith.
"Crazy" is a broad term.
A legal defense based on insanity rests upon whether the defendant knew right from wrong.
Smith is not schizophrenic. He doesn't hear voices or see green men.
He is just a sociopath, which is not a defense.
it sounds like Smith is only a danger to people who invade his house
No, he is a danger to anyone who crosses him, since he clearly believes that the proper answer to a provocation is overwhelming deadly force.
Again, Smith's actions were disproportionate and sickening.
In Europe they used to hang pirates and move their dangling corpses into the harbor where other pirates could see them as they approached.
Perhaps you would be more comfortable in Saudi Arabia, where they unhand thieves, execute adulterers and often treat women like vermin.
Smith would probably find that a bit tame, but at least an improvement.
You need to look up the definition of sociopath.
Apparently, this guy’s home had been invaded before, more than a couple of times.
He had no criminal record prior to this.
The perps, indeed, had multiple B&E’s. I looked all of this up, since apparently, in the face of outrageous violation of personal security, the state and its citizens require restraint, even chivalry (holding at gunpoint, shooting to incapacitate, then visiting the victims in the hospital after, etc).
There was no rape. Guy was pissed. It was Thanksgiving, on top of the violation of his security, they did it on Thanksgiving day.
He shot the boy, wounded the girl, then killed her with a head shot. Under your rubric, had he called the cops and let her bleed out, he’d have been fine.
The message from all of this is: The perps win. You have to tie an arm behind your back and give the invaders every benefit of the doubt before you can waste their stupid a$$eS for picking your house, AGAIN, to invade on Thanksgiving day.
This guy is going to jail because he was a bad shot.
That's what he said.
He reported a home invasion to the police exactly once.
He had no criminal record prior to this.
Neither did Haile Kifer.
The perps, indeed, had multiple B&E’s.
Actually, the police investigation turned up evidence of one other B&E, so if by "multiple" you mean "two", sure.
Under your rubric, had he called the cops and let her bleed out, he’d have been fine.
No, under the law, he shouldn't have shot her at all.
But even if the boy had bled out by the time the cops came, it would have shown that he tried to save the boy's life, regardless of the outcome.
The message from all of this is: The perps win.
They are both dead. They won nothing.
Had they lived, they would have "won" at least two burglary convictions.
This guy is going to jail because he was a bad shot.
He is going to jail because he is a murderer.
He was a perfectly good shot. He began by shooting two slim, unarmed people from a middle distance - and his first shot for each one was a killshot for each one, inflicting center mass wounds that were both mortal without intensive medical treatment.
He followed up with two point blank rifle shots to the chest of each one.
Then he took a couple of extra shots for fun.
Every shot he fired inflicted a wound that would have been deadly, and not one shot that he fired missed.
How many times do you have to be invaded before your allowed any anger at having your personal security forever compromised in the place you call your home?
He reported one, but had claimed others, before this last one on Thanksgiving.
We’ve had three home invasions on our block. Three. In one they tied up a 79 year old couple to a chair and left them there for two days before someone found them.
Heads on sticks, because all jail is today is secondary education for petty criminals to become journeyman criminals.
Uh huh.
Because the normal thing to do is to not report home invasions.
We’ve had three home invasions on our block. Three. In one they tied up a 79 year old couple to a chair and left them there for two days before someone found them.
We can tell anecdotes all the livelong day.
He wasn't tied up.
There was a helpless girl, no longer remotely a threat to him, moaning as she bled from four bullet wounds on his floor.
He thought about what to do.
He could have called 911.
But he decided to go to another room and get a handgun to replace his longbarreled rifle, so he could more intimately stare into her eyes, toy with her, and curse at her before putting a bullet in her brain.
Heads on sticks
Inshallah, Mullah RinaseaofDs.
Is it your position that wounded perps are helpless? Given the information he had at the time, there was nothing helpless about either of them.
He’s being put in jail because of the kill shot. Had he kept his mouth shut and let her bleed out he’d be a free man.
Everybody’s an expert. “Yeah, just hold them at gunpoint until help arrives?”
Really? Ever held anyone at gunpoint before? You know they actually train people on how to guard people at gunpoint, because it isn’t easy at all.
How do you keep a perp at gunpoint and treat their wounds at the same time? I forget how they taught that module.
Oh, that’s right, they didn’t. You have to RESTRAIN them first before you can administer first aid to insure the safety and protection of both the guard and the first responders. That’s what I remember from the training.
Hold on a minute, the minute you restrain them, that makes it imprisonment, which could be sold to a jury as kidnapping. Good Samaritan laws are now out the window, so if they die because you shot and then restrained them and your treatment wasn’t enough, then you’re screwed anyway.
This is why the Hi-Cap magazine laws were so hotly contested. Reloading, or going after another gun, is construed as premeditation.
However, if you’ve got a 9mm with a 15 round magazine, then you can kill two invaders with the same magazine.
Try doing that with only five rounds.
These two eat turkey and fart into their couch cushions in front of the Dallas game, everybody walks away.
Nope, let’s break into someone’s house while they are still home. That’s what we’ll do on this day of thanks.
How many times does a guy have to have his home invaded before they are allowed some sort of justifiable rage?
You don’t believe in absolutes? Everything is a shade of gray? I don’t want to know you.
I wish I could have stated this as eloquently and reasonably as you. I just don't have the patience to deal with idiots anymore.
Then stop humping my leg. Go burgle a house.
It has been pointed out repeatedly that he should have stopped as soon as the threat had passed.
To say that “Sorry, unless he knew, specifically, that those two were going to enter his home at that date in time, his actions were justified, no matter how heinous, really opens the door.
What if he had decided to torture them before killing them? Or rape the girl and then kill her?
There was a point where they became wounded prisoners and he became an animal.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Thank you.
This guy is not someone I want on my side of 2nd amendment rights.
Kill them now, kill them slow or fast, I don't care, but kill them. Don't talk to me about shades of gray or "Taking the Bible seriously."
Just saw this story on a Dateline rerun, and that was my conclusion. The home invaders would have been safe and sound had they not been actively home invading.
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