Ukraine crisis: What the 'Russian soldier' photos say ('Russian' soldier photos appear to be fake

BBC ^ | 4/22/2014 | Staff

[Laissez-faire capitalist]

Theses photos [at URL] purport to show the same bearded Russian soldier (circled) in operation in Georgia in 2008 and Kramatorsk and Sloviansk in 2014

Photos released by the Ukranian government as "proof" of Russian soldiers on the ground in Donetsk leave many questions to be answered...

The low-quality, annotated images were handed to the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe on 16 April, as evidence that Russian "sabotage-reconnaissance groups" had been working with separatists in the Donetsk towns of Kramatorsk and Sloviansk.

According to a NYT article, the photos and their descriptions were "endorsed by the Obama administration".

However, the BBC has been unable to verify the pictures and there was no immediate response from the Russian government...

The Ukranian press release says the photos show the same heavily bearded gunman taking part in militant operations in Kramatorsk and Sloviansk this year, and in an operation in Georgia in 2008...

This would be damning evidence indeed but in the 2014 photos, the man's greying beard apppears to be black while in Georgia six years ago, the slimmer-looking man shown has a reddish beard.

The Ukranian government highlights a Russian special forces badge on the sleeve of the gunman in Georgia but such badges can be bought on the internet for less than $5.

Another set of photos purports to show the same masked gunman in both Crimea earlier and in the Donetsk region this month. However, while a similar uniform is worn in both photos, the masks are different, as is the way the pistol is worn on his belt. Is this really the same gunman?

Apart from the photo said to have been taken in Georgia, all of the images seem to be recent and there is nothing to suggest any of them were taken outside Ukraine.

[Laissez-faire capitalist]

I said photos “appear” to be fake.

Same as “seems” to be fake.

Not 100%, but not 0% either.

Got it, Day Dreamer?

[tcrlaf]

$79.00US for the Digital Pattern Spetnaz BDU, complete with patches, on EBAY right now.

[dangus]

TROLL!!

(No, not you. The “Russian” guy. He’s straight outta Lord of the Rings.)

[Sam Gamgee]

Huge difference when we are talking about the Moslem world stuck in the middle ages, and wannabe commie regimes in Europe.

[Laissez-faire capitalist]

Before what you said in your second paragraph can be taken seriously or legitimately, where do you see me disseminating RT articles about/dealing with Ukraine here?

Huh?

Secondly, before what you said in the second paragraph can be taken seriously or legitimately, FIRST show where and how the BBC is disseminating (either deliberately or not) false propaganda? What have they disseminated that is false or false propaganda? If you can't prove that, then everything said in the second paragraph (either tome or anyone else) falls apart.

If you can prove this, I would be the first to like to see this. Instead, you go right around proving that the BBC is disseminating false propaganda right straight to me, because that is the easier strategy for you to squelch talk.

Your third paragraph is a straw man and conclusionary leap (a false one at that to boot) of the highest order. Nowhere do I assert that the misdeeds of the Obama administration thereby forfeits Ukraine's right to have its territorial integrity respected by Russia.

We need to stay out of this, IMHO, Period.

[jjsheridan5]

Brand new Russian special forces gear doesn’t fall off a cabbage truck. Don’t be a commie dupe, FRiend.

Anyone who uses the word "commie" to refer to Russia (or China, for that matter) is probably outsmarted by most of the content of a cabbage truck. Ad hominem attacks are the first and last refuge of the mindlessly hysterical.

[Laissez-faire capitalist]

I believe that if you sre speaking of Ukraine, it would appear that we have fascist elements in Ukraine vs commie elements in Ukraine - neither of which are desirable. And so I will say the following to you, 1rudeboy, WhiskeyX and all others one final time here on this thread so that you can all see the complexity of this:

Svoboda apparently has 1/4 of the interim gov’t positions. They have been reported as being fascistic and Pravy Sektor as more fascistic than they, and that they, along with others, helped in the EuroMaidan mov’t to overthrow the less-than-desirable former regime.

So junk replaced junk. How wonderful. /sarcasm.

And we have Ukrainian commies vs Ukranian fascists right now. Tweedle Dee vs Tweedle Dum. Junk vs. junk. How wonderful... /sarcasm.

And Russia may be involved heavily - or not so heavily in Ukraine. We don’t know to what degree they are or are not involved. And we don’t know to what degree if covert U.S. is involved (and to what degree if involved) and thus we have a mess in Ukraine.

Once again, IMHO, we need to stay the heck out of this. That is all.

Does Russia have a right to send those 40,000 Ukranian-border Russian troops into Ukraine and violate their territorial integrity like this? Heck no.

But does that mean if they send them across the border into Ukraine that we are obligated to help Ukraine? No. They are not a NATO member, and NATO is a defensive charter, right?

Now if a NATO member is attacked then all NATO members are attacked. But that wouldn’t appaly to Ukraine if they are attacked, right?

[Laissez-faire capitalist]

Ad hominem attacks, Straw Man arguments, what seem to be veiled accusations of collaborating with the enemy (as if posting a NYT article, a BBC article, etc is collaborating) may be par for the course here.

Now, I could see it if someone went to Pravda for an article to post at FR...

[jjsheridan5]

They definitely have difficulty grasping how the world is changing, and are stuck in their fantasy world. Their child-like view of the world is, not coincidentally, reflected in their childish postings.

[1rudeboy]

Do you prefer "fascist" with regard to Putin? That's a little tricky, because all he does, it seems, is whine about fascists.

[lodi90]

Anyone who uses the word “commie” to refer to Russia

---

Putin is KGB. If the shoe fits....

[jjsheridan5]

Do you prefer "fascist" with regard to Putin? That's a little tricky, because all he does, it seems, is whine about fascists.

I don't generally rely on labels, so it doesn't make much difference to me. But knock yourself out, if that is all you have to base your opinion on.

[1rudeboy]

Now, now . . . all the cool people know Putin is not a commie.

[1rudeboy]

Well, surely you have a label of your own, if you are reserving the right to object to anyone else’s.

[Laissez-faire capitalist]

Please prove (based upon post #32) that jjsheridan5 is “reserving the right to object to anyone else’s.”

And BTW, even if it were true, Tu Quo Que arguments do not befit you. You can’t use them.

[1rudeboy]

The objection on the table is the use of the word "commie" to describe Putin. If that term is objectionable, it is not unreasonable to ask what term isn't.

And by definition, if someone objects to a term, they have a better one in mind, and not some blackboard-theory objection to terms in general.

[Sam Gamgee]

We send Biden to Kiev and dare the Russians to make their move.

[jjsheridan5]

The objection on the table is the use of the word "commie" to describe Putin. If that term is objectionable, it is not unreasonable to ask what term isn't.

No terms are particularly fitting, especially "communist". Even during the late stages of the Soviet Union, true believers generally were hard to find (although, for obvious reasons, the rhetoric remained "communist"). A better description is that he is a fairly typical Eastern European/Asian strong and willful leader. I have little doubt that he is not particularly ideological, and motivated more by a combination of national pride, and personal advancement.

I am not so much objecting to the term "commie", as I am laughing at it. So no, if you are looking for a replacement term, perhaps one less silly, then I have no suggestions for you.

[1rudeboy]

“Authoritarian strongman” works for me, thanks.

[jjsheridan5]

“Authoritarian strongman” works for me, thanks.

Not inaccurate, but highlights a less important aspect of Putin. In a world where few leaders are thinking long-term, he clearly is thinking many steps ahead (economically, geopolitically, and perhaps most importantly, culturally). This is very good for Russia itself, but potentially less so for the rest of the world. Certainly, I worry for countries like Poland, which could very easily find themselves next to a resurgent and dominating Russia. And the prospect of a Russian dominated axis reaching all the way to the middle east is quite concerning.

He is not Hitler (Illinois Nazis, OMG!!!), and certainly not a Soviet strongman (commie, OMG!!!). He is something else entirely: a highly motivated pragmatist who will probably lead Russia to greatness, or to ruin. But he will certainly outplay our current leadership (including the McCain's of the world), especially in their own backyard.