Posted on 03/25/2014 1:16:37 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
“...They owe everyone. Their leaders have been poor overseers...”
I guess you are talking about America with this line.
PS- It seems that your Hero Bily is a wanted International War Criminal, wanted for involvement in the tortures and killings of Russian soldiers in Chechnya, from 1994 into the 2000’s.
Sure. partition a country against its will.
Otherwise, what are adjacent countries going to do with all of those anarchists and neo-Nazis in western Ukraine on the loose?
The adjacent countries have similar numbers of neo-Nazis.
You have not been following Ukraine long enough. The “peaceful protest” began last Nov. when Ukraine was denied to trade in limited way with E.U.
(Keep up the chronology of events in the regions politic.kiev.ua.
http://politic.kiev.ua/regions/501518-oblastei-za-narod-lishe-dvi-za-yanukovicha-karta.html)
The Crimean Tartars (Muslims) do NOT want union with Russia, Jewish leaders just sent letter stating they do NOT want union, The Orthodox do not want union, Baptist (Current Ukraine President is clergy) do not want union.
Putin has violated THE BUDAPEST REFERENDUM. 1994, Ukraine agreed to give up its Soviet-era nuclear arsenal in return for guarantees — signed by the United States, the United Kingdom and Russia — of its territorial integrity and independence. Pray that this will not be like another Georgia! When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, the newly independent Ukraine had on its territory what was the third largest strategic nuclear weapons arsenal in the world. It was larger than those of Britain, France, and China combined.
The first shipment of nuclear weapons from Ukraine to Russia (by train) was in March 1994. On June 1, 1996 Ukraine became a non-nuclear nation when it sent the last of its 1,900 strategic nuclear warheads to Russia for dismantling. The Ukraine, United States of America, Russia, and United Kingdom signed the 1994 Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances pledging to respect Ukraine territorial integrity in return for giving up its nuclear weapons. This pledge that was definitely broken by Russia’s 2014 invasion of Crimea!!! On June 1, 1996 Ukraine became a non-nuclear nation when it sent the last of its 1,900 strategic nuclear warheads to Russia for dismantling.
1. http://patriotsbillboard.org/bill-clinton-signed-treaty-to-protect-ukraine-if-they-gave-up-arms-they-listened/
2. Obama renewed pledge 2009http://patriotpost.us/commentary/24318
You said they’re not a nation. They are. Your fondness for Putin is no reason for other nations to be treated badly by him.
Yeah, he was Georgian. Putin tears into them, too. Pretty soon he’ll be after all of his neighbors and the Putinista fan club will be still cheering him on.
Hitler was Austrian.
Napoleon was Corsican. What’s the point? The victims in Ukraine are still Ukrainians and these Putinstas and their efforts to portray Russians as the victims and Putin as a hero are beyond disgusting. If these Putinistas were conservatives, they’d not be dupes of Obama or Putin.
And of course while we’re at it, Obama is Kenyan.
We're stuck with the people we vote for, and hope we do better in the next election. Why should we support the mentality of a violent coup, especially where they were promised early elections?
“Putin has violated THE BUDAPEST REFERENDUM”
Which, as events have proven, wasn’t worth the paper it was printed on. Yet another lesson about the cost of a weak U.S. President on the world as a whole.
Also, the case can be made that Russia isn’t in violation, as there is no “Legitimate” government in Ukraine to deal with. And that part comes down to diplomatic interpretation, I am afraid.
I feel like an apologist for Ukraine when they have acted with integrity. I am a proud American citizen with grandfather, father uncle & in-laws that fought for our country. But, I also am TIRED of readers demeaning mockery of these people that have tried to reach international agreements.
At first, the military was afraid to be “aggressors” for fear of Putin labeling as provocations as he stated he reserved the right to protect Russian citizens in Ukraine. Not only did Ukraine disarm they cannot fight back!
GOOGLE TRANSLATE: 50 Ukrainian military in Belbek morning of March 4 came unarmed to the airport from the requirement to put them in position, the Russians met their shots in the air, but then began negotiations.
Going against strangers with guns, singing Ukrainian national anthem.
POLICE OF KNEES http://www.businessinsider.com/riot-police-on-knees-in-lviv-2014-2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbHC3SQCrEk&feature=youtu.be police join protestors
http://www.businessinsider.com/riot-police-on-knees-in-lviv-2014-2
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1099585
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/04/ukraine-crisis-east-idUSL6N0M14MC20140304
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1099585
Has Ukraine shown any aptitude for governing itself? If it shouldn't be partitioned against its will, the people of eastern Ukraine should not be forced to stay in the Ukraine against their will.
Do I feel the same way about the US? Yes. If it gets so bad that states want to vote for their independence, they should be able to do so.
It seems the coup leaders immediate action was to go whining to the US, NATO and EU for financial and military help. That's why I said they should be put out of their misery as a nation. They don't seem to want independence, they want a new piggy bank.
quick question - did the US Congress ratify any treaty with Ukraine, or was Billy Boy signing the Budapest Referendum just a public show ?
Now you are just making stuff up.
As far as giving up those nukes? That was kind of foolish, giving up being a nuclear power, when everyone around them is. And any promise from the US or Europe? It'll end up being a real bad deal where Ukraine will never pay its way out from the loans. Look what happened to the poorer nations in the EU.
QUICK QUESTION FREEPERS:
Remember Mar 26, 2012, when Obama leaned over to and said to Putin and said “Wait until after my re-election ?”
Could this have been what he meant, wait until Obama has time to weaken the nation:
1. Pass de facto-law by federal agencies czars i.e. EPA, Dept of Labor,
2. De-stabilize the depressed economy further with over regulation by these same agencies
3. Coordinate the release of CIA info to aid enemies and destroy international alliances thru Edward Snowden (now hiding in care of Putin)
4. Common-core Education ‘sold’ to States to destabilize education
5. Reduce Military Budget: demoralization & reduction of troops, planned weapon obsolescence?
6. Control media information release
7. Increase unemployment: capitalism can not handle full employment with Obamacare
8. Increase Welfare recipients
9. No prosecution of illegal immigration
10. Department of Justice (DOJ) expansion of background checks based on executive orders
.. and the list goes on and on
and now...
Putin re-creating the old U.S.S.R
(Let us NOT forget George Soros hand in all this...)
Ukraine's inept governor was the lying Putinista, Yanukovich. He was impeached.
Do I feel the same way about the US? Yes. If it gets so bad that states want to vote for their independence, they should be able to do so.
An invading occupying army called the election, set the terms of the choices and then counted the votes. I'm all for self determination, in Crimea (and here in the US) but that's not what happened in Crimea.
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