[Kenny Bunk]

Is it fair to say that the neoconservatives tend to share the social goals and outlook of socialists, but not the usual socialist means and excesses for achieving them? IOW, the neoconservatives want an efficient Welfare State, but with a strong and aggressive foreign policy! It also strikes me that neoconservatives seem to desire intellectual acceptance from the Left.

Sometimes neocons remind me of "Christian Socialism" (except that ta good number seem to be Jews) as originally championed by Pope Pius IX. IOW, "give the people everything they want, but keep them from going revolutionary ... or communist.

[Kenny Bunk]

Ping

[Ohioan]

Yes, it certainly may be said that Neocons, like National Socialists in Germany, and the more moderate "Christian Socialists" in other lands, share common socialist values, with other Marxist rooted & influenced movements. The means, often vary, however--as do the chosen scape-goats.

Frankly, in my opinion, the most common trait, is a completely unsupportable acceptance of the idea that people are far more plastic than they are. Thus, those who have a utilitarian rather than a moral perspective on human societies, are sold the idea that Government should control the social environment--including the economic--in order to remake people in a collectivist/egalitarian direction.

With a hopelessly flawed premise coupled with an abandonment of the moral (as opposed to the utilitarian view of a human society), these movements are alike in being incapable of achieving anything both lasting & worthwhile.

William Flax