Posted on 03/10/2014 12:24:11 PM PDT by C19fan
Last October Dr. Thomas Ogletree (above), a clergyman in the United Methodist Church (UMC), performed the wedding ceremony for his gay son. UMC pastors are not supposed to marry gay couples, family members or otherwise. They’re instead supposed to believe what their Book of Discipline (which is to the UMC what, say, the Tax Code Book is to the IRS) tells them to believe, which is that “homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching.”
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So guess what happened this morning instead of the trial of Thomas Ogletree? The UMC bishop overseeing the trial dropped all charges against the pastor. And he didn’t just drop them, either. He turned them into a huge brass bell he used to ring what will likely be remembered as the death knell of the anti-gay policy of the largest mainline Christian denomination in the world.
(Excerpt) Read more at patheos.com ...
Perhaps a reason for a conservative Methodist to give serious thought to join only Christian group that still opposes this — the Catholic Church.
as far as their national organizations are concerned - yes.
however, in communities outside urban areas, churches continue to operate and worship according to the faith handed down to them from generations past. That is true where I live and from friends, believe it is true elsewhere.
I think it serves as vacuous because it really doesn’t address the condition of the seeker nor does it really define Jesus in even the barest of terms. I’ve even seen it used on drunks because it is a quick and easy kill.
It’s not a bad thing, it’s just not a valid path to true Salvation except under extreme circumstances(like someone who is intimately familiar with Christian theology). It’s not even sincere (because it is not original).
At worst, it creates false converts who believe they have “punched their ticket”.
Look into Ray Comfort’s ministry Way of the Master. Listen to Hell’s Best Kept Secret.
http://www.wayofthemaster.com/hbks.shtml
Our Methodist church had a District Superintendent who told our preacher that he wished he believed in heaven.
re: “I think it serves as vacuous because it really doesn’t address the condition of the seeker nor does it really define Jesus in even the barest of terms.”
So tell me, then, in Acts 16:29-31, was Paul’s answer to the Philippian Jailer’s question, “What must I do to be saved?”, vacuous too? All Paul told him was, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved.” That’s even shorter than the “sinner’s prayer”. Just how much theology must one understand to be saved?
I don’t ever understand liberal believers. A wishy-washy God who stands for nothing? Why believe at all.
. . . and by the way AppyPappy, I totally agree with you that people can be led by the nose to repeating a “prayer” that they don’t understand and have no real idea what they are doing. That can and does happen.
I also agree with you that it can create “false converts”. However, my question is, do you ever tell someone about Christ and how to become a Christian? If you had the opportunity to tell someone, what would you tell them?
I’m not trying to be argumentative, and I do see your point of the danger of not fully explaining to people what becoming a Christian means. But, explaining to people what a Christian is and what one needs to do to become a Christian is possible, isn’t it? If that is so, we tell the Gospel and then let the Holy Spirit do the converting. We cannot know what someone else is thinking or feeling. They can reiterate back to us information, but we have no idea what is in their heart.
Does that mean we don’t tell them about Christ? I think the so-called sinner’s prayer at least gives some simple idea of what you are asking a person to do, and, of course explaining what it means is an absolute prerequisite before ever attempting to help them pray.
But who is the Lord Jesus Christ? How can you believe in someone you do not know?
I have been teaching Sr High Sunday School for 18 years. One thing I have learned is that teens know very little about Jesus, theology and sin. A few weeks ago, I taught the passage about “If your eye offends you, pluck it out” and they were aghast that Jesus would say such a thing.
We cannot know if someone is sincere which is why we shouldn’t assume the “sinner’s prayer” has accomplished its mission. One thing I like about Methodism is that we kinda assume that Justification comes after Prevenient Grace. God seeks and woos the sinner into a relationship. It doesn’t just happen. It’s part of His divine purpose.
We don’t tell them about Christ. We tell them about what Christ has done for us. They cannot argue with that.
It was sad when that great ship went down,
It was sad when that great ship went down,
Husbands and wives and little children lost their lives,
It was sad when that great ship went down.
When that ship left England it was making for the shore,
The rich had declared that they would not ride with the poor,
So they put the poor below,
They were the first to go.
While they were building they said what they would do,
We will build a ship that water can’t go through;
But God with power in hand
Showed the world that it could not stand.
Those people on that ship were a long ways from home,
With friends all around they did n’t know that the time had come;
Death came riding by,
Sixteen hundred had to die.
While Paul was sailing his men around,
God told him that not a man should drown;
If you trust and obey,
I will save you all to-day.
You know it must have been awful with those people on the sea,
They say that they were singing, “Nearer My God to Thee.”
While some were homeward bound,
Sixteen hundred had to drown.
One fascinating story I heard about the Titanic was that one of its onboard coal bins had begun to smolder (as from someone carelessly dropping a lit cigarette butt in it) and while that didn’t pose a fire risk to the ship, it did pose a risk of losing the necessary fuel to traverse the ocean. And so the captain had the ship proceed at full speed even through known ice fields, rather than incur the embarrassment of having to have another ship meet it and supply more fuel and/or take the passengers to their final destinations.
A Christ that just made you into nicer people might still not be anything more than, say, a Plato or a Freud.
Giving Him His full divine props is absolutely necessary — and generally in Baptist circles, parents WILL teach the children about the person of Christ.
I agree... it’s only “vacuous” in a vacuum. Circumstances are being given short shrift. It’s easy to blame the plow when it won’t turn concrete into a garden.
They confuse God loves me regardless of what I do, with God loves everything I do.
Excellent and correct. One thing I always find as I read the Scriptures is the fight between “thy will be done” and “my will be done”. Surrendering to God’s way is hard for us willful humans.
No surprise here.
I think there are 3 United Methodist Churches in my town... I have never seen so many Methodists in one place.
“Methodists are Baptists that can read”.
Unless the NE Bishop is denounced, defrocked, and expelled, yes it it lost. Because if they tolerate this apostate, they tolerate all apostasy. Which pretty much describes my experience with the UMC when I was kicked out for requesting greater Biblical orthodoxy and less leftist politics from the pulpit. There may be sound congregations and perhaps even solid conferences, but as long as they countenance heresy, yes it is lost.
Dont forget the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (LCMS) and a couple of other smaller Lutheran synods. There are still some that hold to the Truth.
While that may happen, it won't happen quickly.
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